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#307294 - 12/12/06 12:46 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: RazorFoot]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Scottie,

I think that's a bit different in this regard. I go to a job and say I have a BS or BA in this field or whatever. The company I am applying to might check with the school I graduated from and confirm my degree. No problem. I don't wear my diploma around my pants and I the knowledge I have earned is with me...not in the paper they gave me.

On the other hand, what we are talking about with some belts is similar to a high school History class where someone gets and A+ on a paper...and then proceeds to show it to everyone. Hey, if you liked the subject and wanted to do well on the paper great...the reward was in the doing and in the knowledge that you did well.

IMO, the reward, however, should not be showing the grade to others so that you illicit envy, irritation, anger, or seek self-promotion (parents are fine though-- ).

If you show it in this light, it stops being a reward in and of itself and is now something that is paraded past the pursuit of personal knowledge and lends itself ultimately to the ego.

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#307295 - 12/12/06 12:49 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: harlan]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
I dont think you can use that analogy here. Far more classes through your life in general education and schools than you have in MA's. Plus, yes, I can remember quite a few good instructors I had who truly made me work and I was happy for the experience. And my school days were more than just a piece of paper. They are some of the most cherished memories of my childhood. In both experiences I came away enriched and learning much more than when I entered.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307296 - 12/12/06 12:51 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: RazorFoot]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I think you made the analogy. I might have clumsily tried to take it further. But then...I don't think the analogy works at all.

Quote:

I dont think you can use that analogy here.



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#307297 - 12/12/06 12:55 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: butterfly]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
So the problem is in the way the person who earned it displays it? I understand where you are coming from and in a big way I can agree that when it is something paraded about in, then yes, what sense do belts make. But if it is truly just an honest recognition of how you are doing, then the feedback is good and necessary.

School again, that A+ the person got, if they had not been graded at all, what incentive would they have to do better? Would they even know if they were failing? What feedabck would they have to know whether they had become proficient at that subject or not without a grade? When would you know that your studies were complete as far as having taken it all in?

Just looking for clarification.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307298 - 12/12/06 12:55 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: RazorFoot]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Ah, but Scottie, I think Harlan has a point and your post even touches on it. That it isn't in the grades you got, but in the endeavors your pursued and in the knowledge you gained...regardless of the grades.

For your son, have you ever told him to just try his best regardless of how well he scored on some test or did in some game? That's the point that I think Harlan and I am making.

That it is a personal pursuit of education that should be paramount, not the looking at how many stairs you have moved up on a particular staircase while at the same time looking over to your left or right and seeing others further up and some below you on their spiraling ways.

If you get rid of the enticements to education then it is only the education and your willingness to accomodate it that matters and so you don't need the belts.

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#307299 - 12/12/06 12:58 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: harlan]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Quote:

I think you made the analogy. I might have clumsily tried to take it further. But then...I don't think the analogy works at all.

Quote:

I dont think you can use that analogy here.







I meant the classes, due to volume and number do not represent the same experience. Grade Vs grade seems more like apples and apples to me. Then again, I could be under the misconception, lol.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307300 - 12/12/06 12:59 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: RazorFoot]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I used to like writing poetry. I took a high school creative writing course, and my teacher told me my poetry 'made no sense'...and that I should focus on other forms.

Then we had a visiting poet teach the course for half the year. I took one of my poems that had been eviscerated, and submitted it to the poet without her comments. He loved it.

I realized that looking for approval and recognition from teachers was a flawed process...and that an 'A' was meaningless. It made me think for myself. It made me question: What am I learning? What is the value to me? And do I care about the approval of the masses...or should I be very selective in whose opinion I value?

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#307301 - 12/12/06 01:01 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: butterfly]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Quote:

Ah, but Scottie, I think Harlan has a point and your post even touches on it. That it isn't in the grades you got, but in the endeavors your pursued and in the knowledge you gained...regardless of the grades.

For your son, have you ever told him to just try his best regardless of how well he scored on some test or did in some game? That's the point that I think Harlan and I am making.

That it is a personal pursuit of education that should be paramount, not the looking at how many stairs you have moved up on a particular staircase while at the same time looking over to your left or right and seeing others further up and some below you on their spiraling ways.

If you get rid of the enticements to education then it is only the education and your willingness to accomodate it that matters and so you don't need the belts.




Nuff said, I surrender. And yes, I tell my son that all the time so the point goes very deep.
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307302 - 12/12/06 01:03 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: harlan]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Quote:

I realized that looking for approval and recognition from teachers was a flawed process...and that an 'A' was meaningless.




But your instructor is your teacher too. Now you just confused me again.
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307303 - 12/12/06 02:09 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: RazorFoot]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
If you are being instructed by someone, you will have some form of feedback to tell you how you are doing.

If you do a side kick and your instructor says "good". Does he mean "That was a good side kick" or "That was a good side kick for the amount of time you've been training".

If your instructor says you are doing something wrong, do you take his suggestions and try to fix it? or do you just say to yourself, "he doesn't know what he's talking about. I do a good kick and I'm going to keep doing it my way"?

Testings and the feedback I get from them help me to have a better understanding of what I need to work on. Rank takes a whole pile of my instructors "good jobs" and bundles them into one package. It helps me to see that I am making progress even though I may not be able to see it myself.

I must not be as secure or as self confident as some of you, because I still need to hear I'm doing a good job from my instructor every once in a while. Granted, I'm happy when he stops yelling at me for doing something wrong and moves on to yelling at me for doing something else wrong.

If I didn't value the opinion of my instructor, however he chooses to express it, belts or no belts, then I wouldn't be there.

Laura

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