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#307284 - 12/12/06 11:20 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: JoelM]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by JoelM -

Quote:

The question is "Should belt rankings be used?"




Isn't that pretty much what I asked?

Quote:

Do you think they should still be used?


_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#307285 - 12/12/06 11:20 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: iaibear]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
I voted yes. If done right, as mentioned, the benefits of a belt system outweigh the negatives. As a motivational factor, as an indication of the amount of training a person has, a general level of skill, and what patterns or other material that person should be focusing on.

I will be the first to admit that when I started TKD, earning my first belt was exhilarating. It gave me momentum, solidified my belief that TKD was something that I could do, and maybe someday even do well. Frankly, I had such a low self esteem that I never even thought I would make it to my first testing, much less to where I am now, less than two months from my black belt testing. Every belt, every stripe, added a tiny bit to building my confidence and self esteem.

I can even understand the comment made by butterflyPalm. The higher ranked you are, the more the lower ranked students look to you for guidance, technique, and behavior. I've seen many students where earning a rank has made a big improvement because of this, especially at red or black belt ranks. Where suddenly the student says "Hey look at me, I'm a black belt" and then realizes "Yikes, I'm a black belt, and they're all looking at me"

Of course, we don't let ego get in the way. If someone's head gets too big, or they try to pull rank, they will very quickly loose that rank.

Laura

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#307286 - 12/12/06 11:26 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: tkd_high_green]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Fair enough. So maybe the question should be, should belt ranks effectively end at a certain point - say black belt (ie; no more dan ranks, just black belt)?
Should belt ranks end at black belt?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 12/12/06 11:24 AM
View the results of this poll.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#307287 - 12/12/06 11:27 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: tkd_high_green]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
It really comes down...to the student. I don't care to be defined by anything...not a social security number, not a gender or nationality, not a label...and certainly not by the clothes I wear (gi's and belts included).

This past summer, some little talk of belts flew by me in anticipation of visit by one of my teacher's teachers. I started to wonder...'how do I measure up against others?'

In the end, I decided that I'd been infected by the 'belt chasing' virus...that it totally undermined my training...and I put it aside to go my own way.

Good for some, not so good for others.

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#307288 - 12/12/06 11:41 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: MattJ]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Quote by JoelM -

Quote:

The question is "Should belt rankings be used?"




Isn't that pretty much what I asked?




Yes, Matt, it is. My point that I don't care if they're used. I'd train somewhere regardless of if they used belts or not.




Frankly, I just want somewhere to train.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#307289 - 12/12/06 11:49 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: harlan]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
Quote:

how do I measure up against others




I feel this is a very important question and depending on the person, can either be egotistical or motivational.

I am always comparing myself to my fellow classmates and instructors. I know, for the most part, what I am capable of doing, but I use the examples set by the better students in class and my instructor to see where I'm going, what I need to work on, and what it looks like when done better, and the examples set by the less proficient students to see how far I've come.

Even without belt rank, I would still know where I stood on any given technique compared to the other students in class.

How I would stand against someone from another school, I have no idea, and never would unless I visited that school. Although, I can get some sense based on what I see at tournaments.

Laura

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#307290 - 12/12/06 11:54 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: tkd_high_green]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I forget what teacher said it (somebody famous). When asked if a dojo should have mirrors, a sensei replied 'I should be the only mirror for a student.'

'Measuring' one's self in relation to others is a trap...even if it motivates one to perform better. Instead...I consider the proper relationship to be one of a student and teacher as mirrors.

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#307291 - 12/12/06 11:57 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: MattJ]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I guess I am in the minority here too. If you are after education, then it matters little what anyone wears. If you are after acknowledgement for achievements of that education, then belts matter.

In my opinion, it is ego...learn to know, or learn to show.

-B

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#307292 - 12/12/06 12:33 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: butterfly]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
But even if it is all about learning, even in schools they give degrees out to verify knowledge levels attained (high school diploma, college undergraduate, masters, phd), why should another instituion of learning be any different? It simply designates that you are ready for a higher degree of learning.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307293 - 12/12/06 12:43 PM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: RazorFoot]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Can you remember every teacher you had in school or college? Can you remember every important paper? Is the certificate the culmination, for you, of the entire experience?

Now can you recall the names of every important sensei in your life...or important class/profound lessons? Is a belt, say a black belt, the culmination of the time spent learning/the experience?

In one...you walk away with a piece of paper...and put those years behind you. You are considered a 'graduate'. With another...the belt is just the beginning...all over again.

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