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#307264 - 12/12/06 04:06 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: MattJ]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Are they useful? Are they more trouble than they are worth? Do you think they should still be used?

Vote and be heard.




Yes. Yes. Yes.
_________________________
It takes a village to stone somebody to death.

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#307265 - 12/12/06 04:29 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: Mark Hill]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
In our system the syllabus for each rank is quite detailed.

No-one grades for the next rank until the instructors think they are ready and have completed the requirements of the syllabus to a sufficient standard. The decision on grading is held by the head instructor who nominates who will grade and who will not based on their proficiency.

I think the system works well for our club.

Note it is a non-commercial type of club and is not a business like many of the ones overseas. We instructors do not get paid for any of our work, it is all done on a voluntary basis.
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#307266 - 12/12/06 06:46 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I dislike belt ranks, certificates and all of the like, for the most part.

Truthfully, one's own performance should be placed above belt chasing. and the two definitely don't always go hand in hand together. Otherwise if they did, Fred Ettish (I'm sure you'll remember him, some of you anyway) wouldn't have been a 6t degree black belt without the most basic of skill (he couldn't even deal with a JAB folks).

Why does everyone chase for rank? What are you going to do with that belt, walk around with it? Wear it to the mall? I think belt ranks are a little goofy actually.

The used to help in competition but that isn't even true anymore because everyone SANDBAGS. So, what's the point if, the basics are truthfully the only things that really matter?

-John

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#307267 - 12/12/06 07:04 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: JKogas]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Belts-grades are the westernisation of Martial Arts, Although Krav Maga has a belt system. Without them we are still the same, we know who has graded more than who etc.

I actually believe that we don't need as many colours than say 4/5 ie blue/yellow/green/brown/black. Grades and belts assist with keeping students too, especially the kids as the can strive through each grade. Its an achievement. Although you don't wear it to bed etc, it allows you to know you have reach a certain point in your MA career and you have so far to go until the next step an so forth. Although I have met many who cant't tie their belts properly even some of the Cadet Blackbelts

Long gone are the days when you were a white belt until one day your sensei would give you a brown belt and say well done, no grading etc to do as each day was treated as if you were grading then you had to wait until you were then given your black belt etc.

_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#307268 - 12/12/06 07:19 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: JKogas]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Belts are great, especially the black ones. Whenever I attend TKD classes I feel like an army general walking into a room full of privates. All the bowing you get is simply exhilarating. It compells me to set a good example and to perform at my very best in everything I do and the attention you get when explaining things; and even if I don't do anything, I need to look good and have to take even my warming up seriously. It's a heavy responsibility. There is nothing so devastating as not being a respected black belt. Imagine privates refusing to salute a general, or a president of a country having eggs thrown at him or her.

No, nothing wrong with belt rankings per se; it's the wearer that may make it look bad.

I can understand those in the 'minority' being against belt rankings; on an individual person-to-person basis, I do agree that designated rankings of any kind do not serve any substantive purpose; either you cut it or you don't.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#307269 - 12/12/06 07:24 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: ButterflyPalm]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Belts are great, especially the black ones. Whenever I attend TKD classes I feel like an army general walking into a room full of privates.





That's part of the problem in my opinion.

And they say that MMA guys have huge egos, lol


-John

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#307270 - 12/12/06 07:29 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
I had people bowing to me before they talked to me at karate last time, like what I have to do at Hapkido. All I can say is it felt bloody surreal.

John, Matt J could you comment (further) on my "Paul Vockler" anti-rank inflation approach to belts here or in the other post?

Reiki - we have a similar system in Hapkido. It is "commercial" but very good and only about $40 per month.

Are belts really a westernisation? Chuan'fa and Kung Fu didn't have them until westerners started doing judo and karate?
_________________________
It takes a village to stone somebody to death.

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#307271 - 12/12/06 07:33 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: JKogas]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
I think there should be a ranking system but one that is a far cry less than what it is in most styles today. I really only see a need for a few. White to indicate beginner, green or blue to indicate intermediate, then black to show advanced. That is all you would need. It helps to show advancement and to motivate but doesn't get into to much of the other crap that goes along with ranking.

Train hard, have your progress acknowledged and rewarded, move on to the next level.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#307272 - 12/12/06 07:51 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: JKogas]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
I don't see it as an ego thing, though quoting only a quarter of my post may make it seem like so.

I see it as being respected and acknowledged for your earned achievements, assuming of course that the BB is awarded on merit alone.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#307273 - 12/12/06 07:56 AM Re: POLL - Belt rankings [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Hey, BF, do you think that the 3 out of 4 who seem to support belt rankings...might actually be personally invested in the practice?

P*r*o*t*e*c*t*i*n*g their E*g*o*s?

(or income)

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