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#306322 - 12/12/06 09:15 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Leo_E_49]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3406
Loc: Salem, OR
I'll take the headlock situation. I'd grab a hold of his testicles, squeez and twist, jerk them forward, break hsi grip with my free hand, and shove his face away and escape.
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#306323 - 12/12/06 09:34 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Stormdragon]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4115
Loc: California
I don't think that's possible. Consider: You're lying face down on the ground. He's sitting down or kneeling down besides your face. Your arms are a good foot or so away from his buttocks and he's facing his groin away from them too. In such a situation, I think the best thing to do is attempt to break the headlock by posting with one arm and pulling his arm with your other. (and hope he doesn't apply a neck dislocation) Perhaps rolling as you loosen his grip will help with the escape. Good upper body strength is a big plus in a situation like this. (Just imho)


Edited by Leo_E_49 (12/12/06 09:35 PM)
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#306324 - 12/12/06 10:05 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

I'll take the headlock situation. I'd grab a hold of his testicles, squeez and twist, jerk them forward, break hsi grip with my free hand, and shove his face away and escape.





You won't be able to REACH the testicles with your hands. That's the first problem you're running into with your scenario.

Lets examine the headlock for a second (you AREN'T face down in a typical headlock / head & arm lock).

A good head lock will have your opponent controlling the near arm by the elbow, so you won't be able to reach the groin with THAT arm. This arm will be under control. As well, if you ARE reaching with the near arm, it probably only means that your near arm is now out of position to effectively escape and could possibly be broken with a straight arm-bar or a shoulder lock (one of your so-called "sport" moves).

Now you should know that your FAR arm is too far away from the groin. There's virtually no way you can reach across your body, then across his hips to reach his groin. Especially if he has his weight driving into your body and pulling your near elbow tight.

Your near side shoulder will possibly be off the ground, resting on his near knee. This prevents your turning into him. If you can't do that, you're DEFINITELY not reaching the groin with your far hand. In fact, I'd say you were pretty screwed if you didn't know a technical (so-called,"sport") way out.

One last question for this scenario; what if he is wearing a groin cup under his jeans? (and don't think people don't do this).

Care to try again? By the way, I have a REALLY easy way out of this position (here's a suggestion, your MOUTH is really close to his chest/pectoral muscle...what would you do?)

Give it another shot.


-John



Edited to add another comment

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#306325 - 12/13/06 12:53 AM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3406
Loc: Salem, OR
Thanks for ripping apart my response when you didn't even bother to give details. I was thinking we were rolling around with me in a crappy street headlock or something like that.
Anyway, I did this to a kid jsut today messing around. I would try to bite his arm while plucking his fingers with my free hand if possible. I could also try to step through and shoulder throw him. Otehrwise I dont know. I'm still having trouble visualizing this scenario.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#306326 - 12/13/06 05:31 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
I was assuming you knew what a headlock was, considering that you say you have wrestled.

When I tell any wrestler, former or otherwise, about a headlock on the ground, they automatically tend to know what I'm referring to.

I'll not make the mistake of assuming you know anything from this point on. It certainly seems like you do not.


-John

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#306327 - 12/13/06 07:20 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: JKogas]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4115
Loc: California
Interesting about that face up thing. It's clear I need to get some proper wrestling experience.
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#306328 - 12/13/06 09:13 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Leo_E_49]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Here are a couple of examples of the headlock (kesa gatame, scarf hold, etc.)





Couple of examples there.

-John

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#306329 - 12/13/06 09:16 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Leo_E_49]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3406
Loc: Salem, OR
JK, this is my third year wrestling. I've also done some BJJ on the side for a little over a year. I know a few things, not much but some. There's a few ways to do a headlock. We call that a head and arm hold/pin not a headlock. Get it straight next time.
Thanks for saying I know nothing you jerk.

Ok, I'd do either one of 2 things. I'd either shove my free hand in their face or grab a handful of hair and rip the head back, and tak my legs and wrap them around their head and pull them off (and yes this works I did it just today), or lock my hands around their torso, catch their legs with mine, and bridge them over (a standard wrestling technique).


Edited by Stormdragon (12/13/06 09:20 PM)
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#306330 - 12/13/06 09:20 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: Leo_E_49]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
It does seem that the scenario is sports based, not street based. Headlocks are a common thing on the street, but be honest they don't happen like on the mat. the objective of the street head lock is usually to hold the head so that the free hand can repeatedly punch to the face. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but how many technically perfect BJJ style headlock controls have you seen or heard of in the street. Even on the Door they would be rare.

for the record I have never seen it done and even if it was done it would be as an immobilisation. if you are being immobilised and not damaged then chances are it isn't a SD situation.

My question is How did you get to this position in the first place.
"You don't defend against a punch when it makes contact, defend against it before it makes contact."

This is the problem with Technique based scenarios, it does not take into account the almost endless variables. What's the floor like, how many people are around, multiples? weapons? location? etc etc etc


Edited by drgndrew (12/13/06 09:29 PM)
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#306331 - 12/13/06 09:36 PM Re: Long term effect of eye gouging [Re: drgndrew]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3406
Loc: Salem, OR
I thought oyu meant this kind of head lock: http://www.entish.org/images/headlock.jpg

Or the greco roman form where the inner arm is trapped to.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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