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#306181 - 12/06/06 03:40 PM ambidextrous kata
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
no matter how you choose to disect and use your kata as a training subject in your study...you will be faced with the fact kata only 'shows' one side (right or left) of a technique in many cases. same goes with turns - however you interpret it...it's 50% useless if you haven't trained the other side of your interpretation.

that means for any given kata application you've extracted...you'd have to be able to pull it off using either side or you can't really say you 'know' the techniques or by inferrence, 'know' the kata.

agree or disagree?

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#306182 - 12/06/06 03:51 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
Zombie Zero Offline
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Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1987
Loc: Lorton, VA
Seems reasonable. I'll give it a try during my next practise, and let you know how it works out!

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#306183 - 12/06/06 03:52 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
butterfly Offline
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
OK. Don't like kata, don't really practice it, don't have traditional kata. However, with that said, when I did learn kata, in our style it was mandatory to learn it orthodox and southpaw...had to be performed with both sides, at least at our dojo.
-B

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#306184 - 12/06/06 04:04 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Ed,

One can always practice kata, mirror image kata, reverse kata, reverse mirror image kata, BUT, it's all rather irrelevent.

Theoretically any technique can counter any attack (in 90+% of the time), so one side's development is not better or worse for not doing mirror image kata.

It comes down to which is the better use of one's time in the long run. Getting so you are equally proficient with either side, or learning how to use what you have so the mirror image is irrelevant.
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#306185 - 12/06/06 04:20 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
disagree, generally anyhow.

im happy that I naturally work one side better for any given technique (im all mixed up though!),

There is utility in the technique's for things to work whatever side we use, generally anyhow.

I think this concept is a modern interpretation based on budo concepts, rather than a functional combat art.

Thats not to say that if someone wants to train their bad side more than the good side its wrong, I just dont think we need to,

most pay lip service to the old saying of work your bad side twice as hard anyhow.
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#306186 - 12/06/06 04:23 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Victor Smith]
butterfly Offline
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Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Victor,

I don’t understand the comment “irrelevant” and the consideration that any technique can be a counter to any other. I mean, if that’s the case, what is the meaning of any practice or trying to gain proficiency where there’s perceived weakness in one’s game?

Outside the consideration of kata, I know I am generally right handed, so I work on my weaker side so that if the opponent moves toward my weak side, I can still abuse him more or less competently with fairly strong techniques coming from that side. Doesn’t make me ambidextrous, but does make me aware that I have to compensate more…and that I thought was part of practicing.

From your response, I am reading one shouldn’t worry about one’s deficits from the weak side. And, more importantly at least to the traditional crowd, sounds like kata wouldn’t matter since any single technique could have an infinite number of variables to play with. Then why multiple techniques in any system or several kata?

-B

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#306187 - 12/06/06 04:24 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Victor Smith]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
I don't get what you are saying Victor. is it useful to train things on both sides, in your opinion?

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#306188 - 12/06/06 04:26 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
In AKK, most of the kata are ambidexterous. I think it's a good idea to train them both sides, if you are going to bother with them at all.
_________________________
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#306189 - 12/06/06 04:30 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
one of the methods I use to disect kata is when things appear in 'threes', this to me anyhow represents practise on both sides and then return to the first position to move on,

perhaps a clue that some techniques should be practised both sides as part of training, and others are not so critical.
_________________________
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www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#306190 - 12/06/06 04:42 PM Re: ambidextrous kata [Re: shoshinkan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
"mirror image kata"

I see where the misunderstand is. I'm not talking about kata as a performance being mirrored.

I'm saying when you decide to pluck out and work on a principle with 2-person drills...don't you work both sides?

I mean if you are interpreting a particular kata movement, for example, as an armbar...shouldn't you know how to perform the armbar on both sides reguardless if the kata shows both or not?

isn't that common sense? so then, working backwards: since you practice the kata solo to improve something...shouldn't you also train it's solo form in the mirror image?

I'm not saying just memorize the reverse form...I'm saying because you practice 2-person drill on both sides...shouldn't that reflect back to the solo form?

edit - or actually, thats backwards...the reverse solo techniques should reflect upon the 2-person drills.

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