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#303565 - 11/25/06 03:23 PM Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ dude
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Yeah, well long story short, a friend and I met up over a few beers at my house and talk quickly turned to martial arts, as it tends to do with this guy. Great guy, but a bit of a fanatic, you know the type? So I have a room with a hardwood floor that's completely empty, and after what was evidently the right amount of Guinness agreed to a friendly sparring or I guess in this case grappling mask.
Now I used to wrestle some in junior high and highschool, which has given me some grappling skill, but nothing to put someone away with in a fight, especially in a situation like last night where I was facing a friend.

So I've done aikido demo's on hardwood stages and even on marble which was an interesting training vehicle in retrospect, but I don't recommend wrestling on it! Both of us are no master by any extent, but I found nikkyo to be pretty effective (for me), but eventually I got gassed and he got me in a good choke so I tapped a few "rounds later." I'd be curious to hear if any of you have had similar friendly encounter, particularly if your only martial training is in aikido.

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#303566 - 11/27/06 09:09 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: Joe Jutsu]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I can't say that I've "rolled" (using the MMA/BJJ term) on hardwood floors, but IMHE, getting gassed wasn't the issue for me, but the ground techniques for controlling and locking up - i.e. not having any.

I have to say, the BJJ dude I rolled with was very fluid on the ground, but stiff as in stand up. Granted, he had about 2 years BJJ to my 15 years Aikido... but was quite good for only 2 years. (Although, I'm sure he had more training that 2 years....)

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#303567 - 11/27/06 09:44 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: eyrie]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i started karate by getting dragged along by a friend, it turned into a passion for the both of us. after 2 years of training, he went east and i went west for college. after about a year of judo for me and aikido for him, we meet up back home on a long weekend when were both home to visit.

we were helpinh our old instructor with a few kids classes on a sunday and after a while we got out some matts and started "showing" eachother what we had learned. after about 20 minutes, we started trying to reverse, sweep, mount, lock, project the hell outta eachother for at least a solid hour of good old fashion friendly horsing around.

i have to say the guy, who i could once dance around, had turned into some kind of fluid machine. it was a learning expirence for the both of us i think, either way, the both of us "won", i don't consider those kinds of things matches in any way. more of a leason.

on a side note, i have applied some of the movements he taught me in my ground game with judo. weird angles rock....


yours in life
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#303568 - 11/29/06 10:58 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: student_of_life]
belvedere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 40
I have fellow aikidoka from my dojo that dabble in other arts; including the "fighting arts" as I like to call them. All i can say is that Aikido hasn't the first thing to do with fighting - although, one could rely on it in a fight. My closest experience was during a float trip. Two young men were talking and playing around the camp fire, wrestling mostly. Let it suffice to say, that I showed both of them how to properly apply nikkyo. Not because I had to, but they wanted to see what "I could do".

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#303569 - 12/01/06 01:46 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: belvedere]
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Yeah, my play session with my friend definitely wasn't fighting. In fact I actually let him start what he wanted to "show me" from his back, me in his guard. We didn't do any stand up really, and like you belvedere, I was inclined to show him nikkyo. He didn't like it too much! But that's about all from my aikido training, technique wise, that I felt I could pull on the ground. I was sort of wondering in posting this if anyone has any other ideas about aikido applications on the ground. I know it's far from orthodox, but hey, it's just play at the end of the day...

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#303570 - 12/01/06 10:56 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: Joe Jutsu]
belvedere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 40
I dunno man. I come from "a place" (in my mind I guess) that Aikido is "so much more than techniques, self-defense, MA, fighting art, etc". As I'm sure you know Jiu Jitsu is where a majority of our Aikido techniques come from, so it is difficult to answer the question: Are there Aikido techniques that are effective in ground work? I'm sure there are, assuming you can catch the opponents hand while he's pummeling your cranium. But other than that, I would say the answer is NO. However, there was a "junior sensei" at my dojo a couple of years ago that is now teachin UFC type classes at his place now; so, maybe there are. Good luck to you while on your path. -Belvy

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#303571 - 12/05/06 05:04 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: belvedere]
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
Quote:

I dunno man. I come from "a place" (in my mind I guess) that Aikido is "so much more than techniques, self-defense, MA, fighting art, etc". As I'm sure you know Jiu Jitsu is where a majority of our Aikido techniques come from, so it is difficult to answer the question: Are there Aikido techniques that are effective in ground work? I'm sure there are, assuming you can catch the opponents hand while he's pummeling your cranium. But other than that, I would say the answer is NO. However, there was a "junior sensei" at my dojo a couple of years ago that is now teachin UFC type classes at his place now; so, maybe there are. Good luck to you while on your path. -Belvy




Aikido is so much more than techniques??? Who taught you that garbage????

No, I completely agree, but I think that we could also agree on the fact that a well rounded martial artist has at least some skills on the ground. You know, that "what if" scenario. That said, I think one can be an outstanding aikidoka without any ground knowledge. I know O Sensei certainly knew a great deal about the ground game of jiujitsu. I've seen pictures of him arm barring some poor chap. But as for my path, I'm not sure that I'm going for "well rounded martial artist." I'm certainly not down with cage fighting, though I do love a good Sakuraba Pride Fight! I think that I'd be very happy if I "settled" for a quality aikidoka and iaidoka. Good luck on your path as well!

Cheers!

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#303572 - 12/05/06 10:24 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: Joe Jutsu]
belvedere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 40
ROFLMAO-BASB! You had me going there at the begining! I was all ready to start crying and googling my Sensei's name! haha And I agree with you. Yes, the "well-rounded martial artist" probably has some wrestling moves they can use, along with some wicked jujitsu holds as well. No question about O-Sensei being a "complete warrior" either.

The one thing that absolutely drives me crazy about the lumping of Aikido in with all the other martial arts is that Aikido is the ONLY ONE that the practitioners don't practice "fight" in. Every single martial art, except maybe for Judo, practices to "fight"; to damage one's enemy/opponent/foe.

That isn't to say that Aikido is not an efficient "self-defense" system; and some of us know that there used to be plenty of atemi and brutal outcomes from some techniques (shihonage, nikkyo, and others) that made Aikido a very dangerous art for its recipients.

But somewhere along the line, O-Sensei must have changed the way he wanted people to practice Aikido more in line with the way he felt about "Aikido" the philosophy.

So what we (or at least I and my fellow members) have is a martial art without the "martial art stigmata". But people outside of Aikido never see this. And many that try it will never see it either. Honestly, I have difficulty explaining what Aikido is to people who ask me, whether they have any other martial arts experience or not.

I always ask them, "Do you want to learn how to fight and protect yourself?" If they say yes, I tell them to take up boxing, because that is the most effective system of fighting and self-defense in our "society" today. If they so no, I tell them when the next "beginner" session is starting up and invite them to join us.

Quite a ramble there. What was the question?

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#303573 - 12/12/06 03:07 PM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: belvedere]
Joe Jutsu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 575
I just got back from a great seminar with David Shaner sensei. It was attended by members from four or so styles of aikido and several martial arts outside of aikido. During one of the classes, someone asked sensei "where is your martial intent?" He smiled and answered, "I have no martial intent." Now this was a highly philosophical and spiritual seminar, but sensei made the point that if you were to have martial intent you would be creating a conflict, essentially escalating the situation. But if you move from a place of compassion, the situation is not escalated, and that is aikido.

I thought that was somewhat relevant.... errrr, what was the question again?

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#303574 - 12/15/06 12:24 AM Re: Damn I'm sore-an aikido guy rolls with a BJJ d [Re: Joe Jutsu]
belvedere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 40
Hehe - Good one. Who taught that Cumbaya stuff again? Oh yeah, it was a badass Aikido Sensei!

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