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#303163 - 11/23/06 01:26 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Gavin]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Gavin, you don't have to respect me, but I thought you would at least show some respect for Relson. But I guess you don't use anything the Gracies developed in YOUR MMA trianing.

Matt, as for the escape I'll show you if we ever train together. It may be better with people believing this stuff doesn't work. I can't give away all the good stuff.

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#303164 - 11/23/06 01:49 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I didn't disrespect you I poked a bit of fun at you... loosen up. I don't MMA either. I'm interested in things that work in the real world under real conditions consistently. Try your clinching theory out, pressure test it. Have fun and experiment!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#303165 - 11/23/06 09:32 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Gavin]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
I am not sure how anyone can think striking the arms in a clinch would not work. They are right there and so are yours. I attack the arms to some extent anytime I am in a clinch situation.

I'd like to see the choke escape too. Maybe you can run it by me in March.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#303166 - 11/24/06 02:13 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Gavin]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
Go watch the Franklin/Silva fight and let know why he didn't attack that guys arms to get out of his clinch.

As far as tensing the arms during the clinch, they should tense during the quick explosive burst when your trying to control the body by whipping the head or fighting for the position. Everyone should know your not going to hold constant tension because you are going to drain yourself in mere seconds (thats beginner level).

Lastly, you hit my arm I elbow your face. I like my choice better in this exchange.

Brandon
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

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#303167 - 11/24/06 06:19 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Eveal]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I didnt read all of the responses, but heres what I think. Punching to the arm isnt going to get it. If you can punch WITH power, why waste it on the arm? I cant speak for all opponents, but as far as I go, a punch to the arm would do little more than anger me. Also, If I am the opponent ant I get the clinch, its grounding time. Once Ive established a firm grip Im going to slam or suplex my opponent. Im not taking the risk of trading punches or elbows or knees and possibly getting put on my back. Im going for the slam, which in most cases will be the fight ender if its on the pavement.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#303168 - 11/24/06 06:20 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Eveal]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
As far as the Franklin/Silva fight striking the arms in the clinch is best against either an opponent grasping clothing or going for an underhook. Silva utilized the double head tie or Plum I blieve it is referred to in Muay Thai. Oh, and please tell me just how what Franklin did was so much more effective than striking the arms. Do you use his methods of clinch fighting?

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#303169 - 11/24/06 06:24 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Chen Zen]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Striking the pressure points of the arm is effective and will loosen your opponents grip,it will also set up more pressure points strikes like on the neck. The question here is can this be done under pressure?

I think it is possible,but not probable.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#303170 - 11/24/06 06:34 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Franklin would have had more success if he'd have used basic wrestling counters to the double neck tie that Silva was using, rather than attempting to punch the arms. Punching the arms probably will only result on your being that much further out of good position.


Two things you can do to counter the plumm include:

1) Popping one elbow away from centerline with the opposite hand and shooting an underhook or
2) Pulling one elbow toward centerline with an opposite hand along with a head peel (reaching around your opponents head, behind his neck, to grasp the far ear) from your other hand while hipping in (pops the arm right off of your neck and gives you the hips)

In my opinion, you counter wrestling positions first as opposed to simply attacking. Taking the inferior positions that you're in and improving them as opposed to simply hacking away with punching is the way to go.

-John

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#303171 - 11/24/06 06:52 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: JKogas]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Actually its a combination of both. Again, like I said striking the arms is not a good counter for the double head tie. However, using a good overhook/whizzer for an underhook, or trapping a hand grabbing cloth against the body while distracting with a strike/flick to the face/eyes provides the time. The striking hand drops straight down and strikes the grabbing arm and then shoots straight back to the face for another strike. Again, this is used to gain an advantage when grabbed first. If the initial position desired, such as your opponent obtaining a deep underhook, is not achieved then other strategies are used, i.e. wrestling counters to gain a better position until other offensive tactics can be initiated.

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#303172 - 11/25/06 04:06 AM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: BrianS]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
absolutly agree with this Brian, and the conversation seems to have steered over towards UFC type fighters where I would agree arm strikes are not alot of use to anyone (the athletes are to conditioned and skillfull).

However if the street punk doesnt know its coming, isnt particulary skilled, and doesnt posses to much 'proportionally to you' body strength then arm strikes have their place, for the reasons you say.

Another key element to what they can achieve is loss of balance, far more significant than any meridian line PP set up etc etc, physical set up yes im with that - nice thing with this is even heavy clothing etc etc will not help them to stop 'steping out/in' if they are struck correctly, at the right angle and with good force.

At my dojo we specifically condition a little and when we have visitors who dont condition, generally they jump around a bit when limbs clash, it is a valid hard style method and one that has been around for many, many years.

This is our basic practise but one that is effective and easily learnt, leading through to the more sophisticated methods as skill increases along with expierience.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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