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#303143 - 11/22/06 06:00 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: JKogas]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Definitely, thats what I am talking about. Options a fighter has from the clinch as well as the okinawan perspective. Just as Grecko Roman wrestlers have a different take on it than Thai boxers, okinawan karate has their own take as well. However, there are certain skills that remain the same across disciplines. Since I wrestled in high school at the same time I studied karate I was able to use my knowledge of wrestling and apply it to my karate techniques. Just like the BJJ groundfighting perspective is different from that of a wrestler, there are certain basics that remain the same. However, each fighter brings their own unique strengths and weaknesses to the game.

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#303144 - 11/22/06 06:49 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: hedkikr]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Quote:

Expecting to strike an arm that whizzing past or toward you is asking a lot




Striking someones fist when they throw a jab is easier than a lot of people think. However, even if a person has very fast hands and throws a punch, provided you can get out of the way (and we have to assume somehow you can or it is almost pointless to talk about anything but you hitting the ground), you should still be able to strike the attacker's bicep or tricep (it isn't moving as fast or as far). Even if you do not follow up with somekind of arm technique, the attacker will not throw as fast the next time.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#303145 - 11/22/06 07:10 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Saisho]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
im not so sure about this, a big hook maybee but a fast jab? sounds a very well timed technique combined with very hot footwork.

anyhow I do have a nice technique, for against a 'commited' jab, from a boxers (or similair) guard as the jab comes fire your rear hand through with the intention of hitting the hand straight on with your elbow, launched by the hip.

works very well when it lands but be carefull in practise, you can seriously 'prang' their wrist (unless they have been working the maki eh).

You also dont 'offer' yourself and remained covered, with good structure
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#303146 - 11/22/06 07:23 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: shoshinkan]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Quote:

anyhow I do have a nice technique, for against a 'commited' jab, from a boxers (or similair) guard as the jab comes fire your rear hand through with the intention of hitting the hand straight on with your elbow, launched by the hip.




That is exactly the technique I am referring to. However, in addition to the elbow, use your lead hand to parry (it doesn't have to be a perfect parry) and bring it to your elbow. I tell my students this. It is not terribly difficult to parry a jab and it isn't hard to touch your elbow. If you parry the jab and guide it to your elbow you can hit it almost all of the time and do major damage to the hand and wrist.

We keep the elbow stationary when we practice. I have seen too many injured hands.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#303147 - 11/22/06 07:34 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Saisho]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I misread the begining of your post and focused on the striking of the upper arm aspect. yes of course the lead hand is a good way to set it up right, and also deflect it 'into' the elbow.

Im sure you work the elbow 'drop' onto a sloppy roundkick to the ribs as well then watch them hobble.

Im also using the bullwhip style kicks into the shins more and more these days, excellent technique for distrupting balance and composure to set up.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#303148 - 11/22/06 08:54 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Saisho]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Sounds like you guys are referring to elbow destructions, a basic defense found in many forms of fighting and is commonly seen okinawan karate. I personally like to use such strategies to get inside on my opponent. But I personally don't like to use strikes to arms as a main defense if I am not already clinched with my opponent in some way. Not that it can't be done, but in my opinion it is not as high percentage a technique.

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#303149 - 11/22/06 08:55 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: shoshinkan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
From my perspective everything about an opponent is a target of opportunity.

The power of the arms is most frequently on the end where striking occurs.

Unless the opponent has undergone extreme arm conditioning for one or two decades, there arms are legitimate targets for karate kata technique.

While I don't work on the Heian Shodan/Pinan NiDan a simple example is the descending hammerfist strike that kata utilizes. Just drop the hammerfist across their strking arm, and watch that arm drop when struck.

The larger answer is more layered, but the sides of arms receive pain really well, they feel it!

There are even uses of kata technique to make sure the strike to the arm never misses, but that's another topic.

pleasantly,
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#303150 - 11/22/06 10:14 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Yes, they are often called elbow destructions, or "guntings" in FMA. I use them in two situations. First, when a person is throwing out jabs to judge the distance and "prepare" for a big strike. It is a prime opportunity to smash the hand and "ladder" up to the body. The other time is when they do commit to the big strike. I will throw a chudan uke and follow it up with the other elbow.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

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#303151 - 11/23/06 01:56 AM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: JKogas]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
Quote:

The only way to deal with the clinch is to know the clinch. Same with ground-fighting. The way to "beat" ground-fighting is to be able to fight on the ground.

Pressure points??!? Not going to do the trick.



-John




I was about to say this but you got to it like I know you would have.

First off, it is toooo hard to try to pin point any kind of pressure point on the arm during an exchange moreless in the clinch the arms are pretty tense and the effects of the hits there will not be worth the effort.

Secondly, if you are going to hit PP than look for the ones with the wider surface areas like the inner and outer gate which are commonly attacked by the MT guys.

Lastly, PP is one of those things to show off to new students and give you something else to get your knowledge in but there are still a few that has lasting effects if struck properly. Study which ones are worth keeping IMO.

Brandon
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

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#303152 - 11/23/06 02:18 AM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Eveal]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Again, I personally don't do the pressure point thing, but rather strike larger areas I know will cause the result I desire. But do you actually think that "tensing" your arm will help REDUCE the pain and eliminate the reaction my strike causes? And why are people you have trained with so "tense" when working in the clinch? You have to understand that the purpose of striking the arms in the clinch is to elicite a specific reaction, the pain is just icing on the cake.

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