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#303133 - 11/22/06 02:46 PM Striking the arm in the clinch
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Karate has many strikes to points on the arm. In Matsubayashi as I know it there is a lot of striking your opponent's arm while in the clinch to open him up for follow up attacks rather than prolonged wrestling. Does anyone else utilize these methods?

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#303134 - 11/22/06 03:02 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
In AKK, most of the striking is done to the head or body. Very few techniques that hit the arms or hands. Assuming a close clinch, though.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#303135 - 11/22/06 03:11 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Its a concept explorered in our 2nd level bare fist sparring very acknowlegeable we always come back to this level even after BB, its part of reality training. In these matches if you don't use foot work at 3rd kyu - BB two or three strikes your arms are near useless as defense. You can strike but its hard to block or raise your guard. I don't know why maybe a mind thing.

In gloves it works a little, better with elbows but not as effective as bare fist. Really not striking merdians in combo thats dangerous, just numbing the arms and never forgeting this feeling.

The Guard is not used as something to hide behind unless theres nothing else left, the same with hard blocking, unless striking with it.

My approach is simple could you explain yours.
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#303136 - 11/22/06 03:36 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
Saisho Offline
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Registered: 06/26/06
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Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Seeing as how we come from much of the same background, it is safe to say that I understand what you are saying about the strikes in Matsubayashi-Ryu. Having also trained in FMA and Silat, where arm strikes are abundant, I take it a little further. I will start by striking the hand itself and work my way up the arm. In FMA it is called "defanging the snake". If you can strike the hand, it is less like the person will be able to make a fist. If you can strike the bicep, the person will be less able to retract the hand leaving it out for you to apply locks and breaks.
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#303137 - 11/22/06 03:54 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Neko456]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Its not that complex really. When standing and wrestling for position using either a distraction or lock like and overhook/whizzer kata teaches us to strike into the arm to either open up more offensive strikes, or multiply the effect of follow up strikes. Especially because people tend to be less defensive when it comes to their arms rather than their face. And like you mentioned it isn't really all that hard to incapacitiate a person's arm for at least a short while to open up you own offence. Naihanchi is a good kata for this. It contains a great deal of striking/attacking an opponent's arms and legs while in the clinch to open up opportunities to attack and put him down as quickly as possible. Which is one of the main objectives of Shorin Ryu considering Naihanchi is the foundation and contains all of its principles.

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#303138 - 11/22/06 03:59 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: Neko456]
CVV Offline
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Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Striking with elbow or hammerfist or shuto on LI10 (forearm). Striking SI10 on top of the arm at connection with chest.(shuto or seiken or keikoken). Strikig the biceps or if possible SI8 although I rather push my thumb into that area. Inner wrist with downward or cicular hammerfist (strike close to opponents thumb or little finger). Attacking just above the elbow joint with upward teisho while pushing down the forearm (but carefull in training as this can easaly cause serious damage).
Also like to thumb lock or finger lock when attacking the arms or hands. Also put weight on top of opponents wrist and lock it towards your own body while dropping the weight.
But not always easy to execute.When you try to make some room to give your technique some power, you easely get smacked in the face.
Goju ryu kururunfa suparinpei shishoshin sepai seiunchin and saifa kata have specific techniques attacking the arms, either numb or break limbs or dislocate.
Also teach to block trying to hurt the attacking limb, not just deflect. But when training arms and legs in kitae kotei, you get a bit used to the pain and seems to have lesser effect. Although got heel kick on my forearm this week on LI10. The effect was numb for a few minutes.

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#303139 - 11/22/06 04:16 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: CVV]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I personally abandoned the specific presure points a while ago. I generally strike where muscles seperate, joints bend, or don't bend. Anywhere there is a groove on the body I am generally able to cause pain to my opponent/partner. As far as creating space that can be done rather safely if you have proper positioning and are controling your opponent's limbs, including the head. The overhook, single/double head tie, and underhook usually work well for this. These techniques are found all around the world in almost every method of fighting. Secondly distraction is good for a set up, either with a strike or unbalancing. In addition if you have a good overhook in the clinch you can usually expose the proper area of the arm to strike and your opponent is more worried about how to get away than hitting you. And by that time you have already hit them. In addition the method of power generation in Naihanchi is specifically designed to develop power waza in the clinch range without much space.

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#303140 - 11/22/06 04:33 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
The only way to deal with the clinch is to know the clinch. Same with ground-fighting. The way to "beat" ground-fighting is to be able to fight on the ground.

Pressure points??!? Not going to do the trick.



-John

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#303141 - 11/22/06 05:29 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: JKogas]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
im told an old Okinawan saying goes something like,

break what is nearest........

I train accordingly and as such hard blocking, striking of limbs, finger grabs, stamping of legs, insteps, ankles all are part of what I do.

When we practise our tegumi you really begin to see targets open up according to your position, we allow ourselves to tap the target to let each other know were open when standup wrestling.

Just part of kumite though and not the major study.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#303142 - 11/22/06 05:51 PM Re: Striking the arm in the clinch [Re: medulanet]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Good question.

Expecting to strike an arm that whizzing past or toward you is asking a lot. Also, an unsecured arm will simply be struck away. Best to secure the hand or attack a grabbing hand/arm thus preventing it from moving away.

Gloved hands don't work & that includes fists. Use of a small weapon (1st knuckle of a finger) is best.

I have a saying (because MA-ists are well-mannered): "Take what they give you"..that can be an opening or a limb that can be struck or twisted.

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