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#302275 - 11/18/06 07:07 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: Boomer]
Boomer Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
Aw poop. I posted the wrong clip......I just looked at my original post. Now I hafta locate the "good" clip of Kawasoe sensei.....

I can't really argue that Enoeda's not a sport type jiyu kumite man, especially with his Kumite book out with C.Mack. But at least that clip of Enoeda sensei didn't make me cry!
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#302276 - 11/18/06 07:53 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: Boomer]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
regarding the guy preforming bassai dai, i have seen a bunch of his videos on google vid or youtube, preforming most of the heian kata as well. i have to admit his level of technique is not that great, actually judging from what i see in his videos, he would not have a brown belt in the style of karate i pratice.

i supose i got a little flamed cause every one just smashed him it seemed. i posted videos of myself on the internet as well, but not with the intent of impressing anyone. maybe the guy just wanted to show some family or friends how he's doing, if so im sure it put smiles on the faces of any relatives.

im very conerned that as martial artists we show respect for people on the same path, regardless of how good they are.

i stand by what i said befor, the people have a right to do what they want and even post what they want. i can't say any of the video's you posted enthrawled me.

i have to say as well, for the most part japanease karate does not interest me. that being said i pratice shotokan under a japanease man. but the 40's japanease legends like enode, kanazawa, egami and so on just seem to be going after a different kind of karate. the sweep you posted first looks good for a sparing situation, but i'm leaning towards the idea that sparing and self defence are 2 completly different animals. and in that light enode makes me cry.

you sound like you look up to enode, sorry if im wrong. but to me hs karate was far removed from funakoshi's. even if he was a direct student, in a way, to me they "ate of the forbidden tree", so to speak. they were all good fighters, im sure, but thats not what karate ka were ment to be. preservation was formost.

call me what you want, but i would rather train with the bassai dai guy then enode any day of the week. in my expirence, there would be a greater sense of accomplishment training with a fellow student, then training with a man who had to fight to gain respect.

i like to think every one has my respect, untill they throw it away.

yours in life
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#302277 - 11/18/06 08:27 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: student_of_life]
JasonSmith Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 43
Loc: York, PA
My thing with the fellow attempting Bassai is this:
To me it looked like he was wearing a black belt, although the color might be off on my monitor or in my head...
I have seen the black belts(hell, and some of the brown belts) do Bassai at the dojo, and this guy couldn't even hold the match to light the candle...
I'm the type of person to learn by example, and this is NOT the example I would want to see when I begin to learn Bassai...Boomer has led the class in Bassai once, so maybe I'm biased(alright, I am), but he's a good example to learn from
_________________________
To search for the old is to understand the new...The Way: Who will pass it on straight and well?

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#302278 - 11/18/06 08:48 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: JasonSmith]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
im sure boomer is a great instructor, hell victor even said he was, so now its law, lol.

i agree the guy's not at the level of instrction yet, he may never be. all im saying is give him i break, he never proclaimed to be an instructor, in fact the vid wasn't even labled by him.

like i said, give him a break, we were all at that level at some point in time, even boomer, me and you and even victor (waits to be struck by lightning).

i hope i never came accross as insultng boomer or anyone in my last post. i was just trying to put someone in the poor guys corner.

yours in life
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#302279 - 11/18/06 08:53 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: JasonSmith]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Jason,

I realize your new to your studies and fully undestand your passion, BUT just looking at a video tape never tells the entire story.

It is true there are many degraded martial training groups and I would not recommend them. Yet, any clip is just what it is. You can't look at the performance and judge where the person is in their training career, what their length of training is, what their potential is.

Life is rarely black and white.

If this clip focuses you to train harder, fine.

But in time you'll find that the martial arts world is much more complex than any simple judgement might be.

It is great to respect your instructors and their examples. But that person isn't an instructor and it is labeled as their practice session.

Accept it as what it is. Without further context, how their instructor teaches, what the rest of the group performs like, etc. nobody really has any context to know how to judge the person, except technically what they are doing. And what ablities a person should have at any rank is an issue with great lattitude in any art, because, rank doesn't really mean anything but a place holder in a group.
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#302280 - 11/18/06 08:53 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: student_of_life]
JasonSmith Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 43
Loc: York, PA
Quote:

im sure boomer is a great instructor, hell victor even said he was, so now its law, lol.

i agree the guy's not at the level of instrction yet, he may never be. all im saying is give him i break, he never proclaimed to be an instructor, in fact the vid wasn't even labled by him.

like i said, give him a break, we were all at that level at some point in time, even boomer, me and you and even victor (waits to be struck by lightning).

i hope i never came accross as insultng boomer or anyone in my last post. i was just trying to put someone in the poor guys corner.

yours in life



Fair enough...
_________________________
To search for the old is to understand the new...The Way: Who will pass it on straight and well?

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#302281 - 11/18/06 08:56 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: Victor Smith]
JasonSmith Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 43
Loc: York, PA
Quote:

Jason,

I realize your new to your studies and fully undestand your passion, BUT just looking at a video tape never tells the entire story.

It is true there are many degraded martial training groups and I would not recommend them. Yet, any clip is just what it is. You can't look at the performance and judge where the person is in their training career, what their length of training is, what their potential is.

Life is rarely black and white.

If this clip focuses you to train harder, fine.

But in time you'll find that the martial arts world is much more complex than any simple judgement might be.

It is great to respect your instructors and their examples. But that person isn't an instructor and it is labeled as their practice session.

Accept it as what it is. Without further context, how their instructor teaches, what the rest of the group performs like, etc. nobody really has any context to know how to judge the person, except technically what they are doing. And what ablities a person should have at any rank is an issue with great lattitude in any art, because, rank doesn't really mean anything but a place holder in a group.



Also, fair enough...
Oh, and Sensei says hello..
_________________________
To search for the old is to understand the new...The Way: Who will pass it on straight and well?

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#302282 - 11/18/06 09:01 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: student_of_life]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Student,

I don't think I ever said Boomer is a great instructor <GRIN> I knew him when he was a grasshopper. His father on the other hand.....

and Boomer, as an Okinawan stylist I rarely keep track of Japanese stylists <bigger Grin>, except for one exceptional indonesian Shotokan instructor I know.

But here's a real challenge. Find me a clip of a truly great performance of a 'traditional' karate art.

Off hand I can only think of a few. Most performances are really holding back (assuming that is the purpose), as it is a very old tradition not to really show your stuff.

All performance has meaning, but find one that knocks your socks off. I'm interested in seeing what that would be and how they rank against my private videos.....

Also in fairness, this is what I consider a reasonable sho-dan standard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzGK-wRtr8


Edited by Victor Smith (11/18/06 09:05 PM)
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#302283 - 11/18/06 09:29 PM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: Victor Smith]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
you posted that video befor victor, and it's still fun to watch. he's one of your students isn't he? i have to say that i am impressed by his snapy kicks, and the kata on the whole. it is a solid preformance to say the least.

too be truthfll, the one that knocks my socks off as you put it would have to be most of the one's by sensei nishiyama hidetaka. he is the man i look up to in terms of technique.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7422324546190991236&q=shotokan

thats a clip promoing the latest dvd series the itkf put out, my instructor appears along with a few more that have hosted seminars. its a good control to contrast what i'm involved with as compared to what else is going on in the martial arts world.

seeing as how you brought it up mr. smith, i would verry much like to get my greasy little hands on some of your private video's of there up on open source somewhere...the collection im talking about here now involves guys in gi, nothing to "private" is ya get my verry subtle drift.....

yours in life
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#302284 - 11/19/06 04:51 AM Re: "shotokan" makes me cry [Re: student_of_life]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Student,

Yes Mr. Lee is one of my students. I only offer it as a visual way to try and show what I'm looking for in technique execution. That clip, while good in it's day is far from his best performance, but he wasn't holding anything back then either.

Nor is tournament style exection my focus, but it does show what movement potential someone possesse that could be utilized in their technique execution.

Thank you for sharing your instructor, I hadn't seen that.

My private video's remain private. Most of them are videos of my instructors teaching my students in their arts. They were private sharings and are not open for others. They permitted me to film them with the hope it would help bind those sessions into my students efforts.

The other portion of my private video records are ones that various individuals have shared privately with me. Each of them was shared with the request I do not pass them along, and I will respect that forever.

A ton of stuff is out there right now. Most of it only is a shadow of those arts.
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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