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#301610 - 11/15/06 10:43 PM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The Mata leo was the first real choking move that was taught to me, and it was from a boxer. He taught me how to slip the punch and take the outside angle to get it on. From there he would do one of two things, either he would lift you off your feet or he would walk backwards, sink the knee into the back and then press all of hi weight forward. This often would leave you with little more option than trying to pry his arms off of you. I was rarely successful in that. He was a big guy with way more strength than me. This technique has seemed to do well for me.

It seems i definately need to work on knee ride. i also need advice on an affective side mount. I feel way to exposed to be comfortable there long or to mount a good offensive. when i am there i seem more focused on regaining the mount position than anything else. Or maybe a kimura.

As for the clinch position, I tend to do alot of what you were saying as far as the striking aspect of it. I work the front or side headlock alot. Usually if its the side, I drop down and go for the choke.

Slapping. The Gentle art, I should have known. Im just not gentle and that may be why my groundgame isnt going as well as i feel it should. I often find myself tiring out from trying to FORCE my opponent rather than letting himself present himself to me like I would if we were striking.

Also could you touch on the Anaconda? Thanks for the help John. Your going to be a great help to me for my match. wish you were there to be in my corner.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#301611 - 11/16/06 07:16 AM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: Chen Zen]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Chen Zen wrote:
Quote:

I was rarely successful in that. He was a big guy with way more strength than me.






A lot of “big guys” do big-guy moves. Correct application of jiu-jitsu enables the smaller guy to apply moves against the big guys. IMO, that’s what martial arts are supposed to be about – not something requiring brute force and power. Big guys who always fight guys smaller/weaker than they are don’t need martial arts to do so. Get them against someone of their own size and poor technique will quickly be shown for what it is.


Quote:


It seems i definitely need to work on knee ride. i also need advice on an affective side mount. I feel way to exposed to be comfortable there long or to mount a good offensive. when i am there i seem more focused on regaining the mount position than anything else. Or maybe a kimura.





I would make the point that you need a good grappling coach. At least someone to shore up some of your weaker points. There is an art to training aside from mere “techniques”. Its learning how to TRAIN those side control skills aside from just “what to do” when in side control.

It isn’t all that surprising that you feel exposed in side control if you’ve not spent a lot of time there. I would argue that you probably need to work more on your escapes from the bottom/getting back up to your feet again as opposed to working a ground-fighting top game. Play to your strengths. I don’t know how much time you have to train, but whatever you have should be designed around your core strengths.

If you do end up on the ground, the mount is where you want to be as a knee-ride and side control game will probably be too loose for you at this point in your game. Of course, that depends on whom you’ll be fighting. Perhaps he won’t have as much of a ground game.

The Kimura from side control is a great attack. But any submission attack for you at the moment may not be the wisest strategy, particularly if you’re wearing gloves. Again, all of this will greatly depend on whom you’re fighting.


Quote:


As for the clinch position, I tend to do alot of what you were saying as far as the striking aspect of it. I work the front or side headlock alot. Usually if its the side, I drop down and go for the choke.





Gotta watch those side headlocks are they can leave you in extremely vulnerable positions. Once on the ground, the arm around the head is vulnerable to attack.


Quote:


Slapping. The Gentle art, I should have known. Im just not gentle and that may be why my groundgame isnt going as well as i feel it should. I often find myself tiring out from trying to FORCE my opponent rather than letting himself present himself to me like I would if we were striking.





The gentle art is that way for a reason, and the term “gentle” here in this case doesn’t always mean that you’re gentle on your opponent.

The gentle art is about flow and not force, brute strength and especially, tension. I see many people new to grappling who keep their whole body rigid. Their muscles are CONSTANTLY tense and they use every ounce of strength to force situations. Needless to say that isn’t refined technique by any stretch of the imagination. That sort of stuff only works if your opponent is smaller and weaker than you are. Fighting that way is like driving a high performance car with the parking brake on.

This art takes some time to learn, like anything. Stay true to your core strength.


Quote:


Also could you touch on the Anaconda? Thanks for the help John. Your going to be a great help to me for my match. wish you were there to be in my corner.




Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwf9x_20DJA

This move is done from a front headlock on the ground. He started with it from standing and just hop-stepped backwards to drag his opponent to his knees. The finish is the anaconda.


Enjoy!



-John

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#301612 - 11/16/06 06:13 PM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I appreciate the help John. I have until January. Before now I relied on striking on the ground to loosen my opponent then work to my feet. My upcoming competition doesnt allow ground striking. I guess what I need most is good strategy to facilitate that. I can do the "techniques" but I dont have much training as far as the transitional phases from technique to technique or from one position to another. Im doing what i can, but the guy i work with isnt a BJJ grappler. He wrestles well, but not like the BJJ guys in the competition.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#301613 - 11/16/06 10:16 PM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: Chen Zen]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Yep, develop a good game plan and you’ll be fine. Do you know who your opponent will be? If not, generalize and work to your strengths. If so, find out as much about him as you can and game plan the guy.

I wish I could be of more help. It would a lot of fun training you if I were closer, and I’d for sure love to corner you. I’ll help though any way I can.

What are you going to wear or, what is allowed to be worn?



-John

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#301614 - 11/17/06 01:04 AM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The matches are drawn up at the event. The night signed up, I wanted to watch before I got myself into something I wouldnt enjoy. Every match went to the ground except for one between a guy 350 pounds and his 300 pound opponent, but the match was still won with a grappling move, the guillitine. All that is worn is your basic MMA type shorts and MMA gloves. The even is January 27 at the New Daisy Theatre in memphis. Im going to fight somewhere around 190 to 200. Heres the rules. The usuall no eyegouging or groin hitting. No small joint manipulation. No knees or elbows to the face. No kicking or striking a down opponent and no striking on the ground. Three rounds three minutes per. Since the rounds are short, the refs are good about standing you up if there isnt much going on on the ground. I believe I stand a good chance of winning on my feet. If it goes to the ground, I have to be sure i dont expose myself if Im going for the sub or trying to gain position. Ideally, Id like to be able to hold the guy in one spot, get stood up, and go for the KO.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#301615 - 11/17/06 07:07 AM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: Chen Zen]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Sounds like it's going to be fun! This is a great opportunity. I'm assuming your opponent will be around your weight and that there are divisions, correct?

You've still got a little time bro. Get yourself some training for positional escapes and you'll be good to go.


-John

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#301616 - 11/17/06 09:50 AM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Yes there are weight divisions. People are coming from all around. At the last one, a guy who had ben training for about six months went up against a BJJ instructor of 16 years!. Thats what Im worried about. I have about the opposite amount of training as the instructor in striking. About sixteen years of standup. Ive only been grappling a short time. Hopefully, I can prepare a little. Im pretty good about not getting takendown but if thats all a guy is after, eventually he will get it.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#301617 - 11/20/06 01:04 PM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: MattJ]
dre9292 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 41
Quote:

"Knee-ride", while not a submission per se, is a very painful position for the person on the bottom, and can often make them submit anyway. It is a good position to control the opponent, and leaves you free to stand up quickly in the event of multiple opponents.




I don't think the knee ride is a very good position, it's easy to get out of especiall without a gi to hold on to. Without a doubt once you hit the floor the best way to go is the mount from there you can punch as much as you want and eventually go for the armbar or a mata leao.

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#301618 - 11/20/06 05:14 PM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: dre9292]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Whether or not the knee-ride is "good" depends on the person using it.

The mount isn't a bad position but can further commit you to your opponent, is all anyone is saying here. That may or may not be a good thing when you're involved in a street fight.

An armbar or RNC may not be what I'm looking for if I need to get up and away quickly. That isn't to say that those aren't effective tactics. It's just saying that circumstances should dictate the strategy and tactics you use. Falling back for an armbar may not always be the wisest move.

-John

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#301619 - 11/21/06 01:17 PM Re: Street effective BJJ. [Re: JKogas]
dre9292 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 41
If you need to go away and quickly you shouldn't really try to stabilize a positon at all because any position will leave you vulnerable to attack from another person.

If your talking about confronting more than a opponent at once then you should use a takedown and strike from a safe distance.

But its very unlikely to win a fight when there's more then 1 person attacking you, so looking for positons that wont furher commit you to your opponent is kinda pointless

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