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#300120 - 11/08/06 10:28 AM Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Article you may be interested in

--- Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths ---


Enjoy,

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#300121 - 11/08/06 10:57 AM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: StuartA]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
StuartA,

This is indeed and interesting article, and I am glad to see someone in the world has your apporach to TKD. If I ever travel to the UK, I would love to take part in some of your classes.

However, I fear instructors like you are few and becoming fewer. Yes, TKD features sweeps, throws, joint-locks and other techniques. Approached in the right way, TKD could indeed be a more "complete" MA.

However, for the last 20+ years, most of the TKD practicing world has been bending over backwards to make TKD a sport. Morever, they have been trying to make TKD into a mass PARTICPANT sport, rather than a mass spectator sport. The effect of this on the overall quality of TKD as a martial art has been devastating.

There is nothing wrong with a martial art possesing a sporting aspect; most MAs do. However, in most MAs, it is understood that the sport aspct is not a aspect every practioners can or should participate in.

Unfortunately, the WTF has decided everyone from small children to tenenagers to the elderly needs to compete in tournaments. While the young and fit might be willing to get punched in the face, swept to the floor, or pinned to the ground, almost nobody else is. This has led to the gutting of TKD via absurd rules (e.g. no hitting in the face with the hands).

Most TKD schools today train students to bounce around with their chins up (a great way to get kncoked out) and hands down (and even better way to get knocked out) while try to tag each other with wild, high kicks. On one hand this has succeeded in opening open TKD to more people as a martial sport. On the other, it has virtually destroyed TKD as a practical martial art.

My point is while all the features of TKD you outlined do exist, they only rarely practiced. The idea that TKD lacks these features is therefor often true at street level.

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#300122 - 11/08/06 10:57 AM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: StuartA]
MattJ Offline
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Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Very good article, Stuart. I was not aware that weapons training was not part of TKD - almost every school I have seen had some.

Still not convinced on your kata/dead training argument, though.


Edited by MattJ (11/08/06 10:58 AM)
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#300123 - 11/08/06 11:59 AM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: MattJ]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Very good article, Stuart. I was not aware that weapons training was not part of TKD - almost every school I have seen had some.




That's interesting Matt, you see I've never seen weapons used at a TKD school before. I've seen a fair amount of weapon defense against knives and sticks, but little intruction on how to actually attack with them. I was under the impression that weapons ina TKD environment usually meant a leaning towards XMA.

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#300124 - 11/08/06 12:06 PM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: Supremor]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Wh ydo they tell you to have oyur chin up and out and your hands down? And why do they never teach good punchign skills. One TKD instructor I've had taught great close range punching and boxing skills and he used to be a boxer but all the rest teach garbage. bah!
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#300125 - 11/08/06 12:27 PM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: Stormdragon]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
TKD practioners are not actually taught to keep their chins up and hands down. These bad habits just tend to develop naturally as a result of training for tournaments with silly restrictions. It makes perfect sense.

For example, since no one is permitted to hit his or her opponent in the face, practioners never realize what a vulnerable target the chin is. Amateur boxers, by contrast, learn this early because those who fail to keep their chins tucked in are quickly knocked out.

Holding one's hands up takes energy. Since no one is permitted to hit in the face with the hands, and since most competitors are fast enough to bring their hands up when blocking kicks, keeping the hands down becomes a habit. When hitting in the face with the hands is permitted, the extra energy keeping one's hands up is worth expending for reasons of defense. When hitting in the face with the hands is forbidden, keeping the hands up is a waste of energy.

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#300126 - 11/08/06 01:08 PM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: MattJ]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
Quote:

I was not aware that weapons training was not part of TKD - almost every school I have seen had some.




Like you Matt, most of the tkd schools around here offer weapons training as well. Most of the tournaments have weapons competitions as well. Granted, I understand that weapons weren't originally part of TKD, but if most schools are teaching it now, then I would say that it has now become part of TKD.

Laura

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#300127 - 11/08/06 01:13 PM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: StuartA]
vegantkd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 121
This is a good article. And I also think that TKD, if taught to its fullness, is much more of a complete MA than most people think. It also takes a good teacher. I've had two Sabumnims in my TKD career and both of them were/are great teachers in that they do teach the complete art of TKD AND they are quite adaptative. Much like Bruce Lee's philosophy of discarding the useless and absorbing what's useful.
I do have a couple questions though.
1. How do you know Gen. Choi was opposed to tournaments?
2. I don't have the encyclopedia yet but doesn't it cover the use of each technique? If so, what is the difference between the encyclopedia and the book that you wrote (I have never read that either so I'm just asking, not criticizing).

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#300128 - 11/08/06 03:07 PM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: vegantkd]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


1. How do you know Gen. Choi was opposed to tournaments?




I've heard this as well, although I thought that Gen Choi said that competition should be used in a non-contact manner in order that students could demonstrate their skills. He was dead against full contact.

Quote:

2. I don't have the encyclopedia yet but doesn't it cover the use of each technique? If so, what is the difference between the encyclopedia and the book that you wrote (I have never read that either so I'm just asking, not criticizing).




Mr Anslow's book I believe, is an applications book. So although the TKD encyclopedia shows all the techniques and suggests targets etc. but does not show applications- looking beneath the surface of a technique. I was quite sceptical about the extent to which this could be done without distorting the forms somewhat, but after training with Shoshinkan(karate mod) I found out the ways in which moves in patterns could be interpreted, with lots of self defense techniques including grappling, instead of just blocking and striking.

I hope I haven't misrepresented Mr Anslow's views, I'm sure he can giver a clearer response.

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#300129 - 11/08/06 03:44 PM Re: Debunking Taekwon-Do Myths [Re: StuartA]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Well, I guess I don't understand the qualifications to the myth busting article. TKD can be trained in just about any way you would like it to be under any banner as long as you call it TKD.

I am not saying TKD doesn't, or can't have the things suggested in the article. But the question still remains, how many folk in "your" particular school practice more with hand techniques than not? And that would be despite a larger quantity of described hand techniques than kicking? How do you spar taking these hand techniques into question? Do you allow throwing and grapping in the sparring? How many actually practice sparring using head contact and low leg kicks? How many practice full contact? How many practice with weapons?

If your school doesn't, then this myth busting article really isn't busting any myths. What I am pointing out is that the possibility of saying any art, regardless of what you call it, can be made to contain any quantity of techniques. However, the actual truth would be if you practiced what your preached. If you don't, then the myth busting article is not applicable....because the reasons for the myths still exist---at least for the ones not doing what the articles suggests might be possible.

-B

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