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#299759 - 12/01/06 06:34 PM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: Ed_Morris]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Quote:


If there is such a thing as the ultimate Truth, it has to be that there is no such thing.





Isn't the absence of truth a 'Truth' in itself? Does that not make your statement self-refuting? I think the same holds for Ed, although his concept of 'truth' seems more expansive than I think we would normally be comfortable with - I think perhaps he means 'purpose' or 'the meaning of life'

Anyway, I suggest people look up Plato's argument against Protagorean Relativism in the Meno (it's a dialogue). That should banish this relativist and self-refuting nonsense
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#299760 - 12/01/06 06:47 PM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: harlan]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
The "truth" is, that philosophy is for people with a LOT of leisure time on their hands.



-John

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#299761 - 12/01/06 07:41 PM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
There's no ultimate truth? So if everyone believes 2 plus 2 is 5 then it's 5? The truth is what everyone beleives? If everyone believes oyu killed kennedy then oyu did and not the real killer?
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#299762 - 12/01/06 08:08 PM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Of course there is absolute truth.

Here is another example of that truth. 70 miles per hour is the speed limit on I-40 between Statesville and Winston-Salem, North Carolina. It is absolute truth because it's an irrefutable fact.

Be careful not to let those into mental masturbation attempt to have you believe that the sun is shining when the rain is pouring. Dig?


-John


Edited by JKogas (12/01/06 08:27 PM)

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#299763 - 12/01/06 08:15 PM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I think I'm with you on this one.
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#299764 - 12/01/06 09:42 PM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: JKogas]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

The "truth" is, that philosophy is for people with a LOT of leisure time on their hands.



-John




No, it is for people with a LOT of food in their stomaches.
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#299765 - 12/02/06 05:46 AM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: JKogas]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Quote:

Of course there is absolute truth.

Here is another example of that truth. 70 miles per hour is the speed limit on I-40 between Statesville and Winston-Salem, North Carolina. It is absolute truth because it's an irrefutable fact.

Be careful not to let those into mental masturbation attempt to have you believe that the sun is shining when the rain is pouring. Dig?


-John




Of course, you're unlikely to find philosophers who are relativists. I think that the comment about philosophy being for people with a lot of time on their hands is a bit of a cheap shot to be honest; deciding on what we know, how we know it, and what's right and wrong strikes me as pretty important. The argument that philosophers 'overthink' things is ridiculous, it's just an excuse on behalf of other people who want to justify their un-thought-out positions by claiming that those who actually take the time to think about something are automatically wrong.

I mean, would you say we should ignore Einstein, Newton, Quantam Mechanics, and systematised MA because their creators had 'too much time on their hands'? I think railling against philosophy is a pretty anti-intellectual position to take.
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#299766 - 12/14/06 01:01 AM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
how about: truth is in knowing what's false.

? well...at least it's logical

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#299767 - 01/04/07 07:51 AM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: Ed_Morris]
baumschrat Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 35
Loc: hamburg, germany
that would make truth a sum of known facts (false things, that is). this might be plausible for an objective reality, for a logical system, from which you can extract "what is true", simply by putting aside "what is wrong".
assuming that there is in fact an objective reality you would still have to be capable of completely grasping this reality's logic. we're getting close to laplace's demon here.

i agree with TimBlack that dismissing philosophy as a hobby of those blessed with free time (or food) is quite risky.
what could be more important? eating? sleeping? earning money? going to the dojo?
all of these share one characteristic: they are all means to an end. which you don't know yet! you do all of these without even asking, why you do them? sure, one could be satisfied with doing things because they are fun to do.
what one should not forget, is that this attitude means restricting oneself to an animal's level of reflexion

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#299768 - 01/04/07 11:28 AM Re: What is 'Truth'? [Re: baumschrat]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
We do these things to improve the quality of our lives and become happy.
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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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