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#297495 - 10/28/06 10:00 AM Showing strike follow-thru in forms
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
when actually applied with full force and intent, many non-linear strikes simply don't stop on contact...they follow-thru. from something my instructor recently pointed out when looking at Goju kata, many of strikes are on a eliptical path, but then stop - this seemingly indicates where the point of contact is...but when we executing the kata with ALL followthru - I was amazed at what the form transformed into...it looked indistiquishable from many Chinese forms. continuous arm movement, as oppossed to Karate's signature 'stop at contact' illustration.

this was a real eye opener, because it clearly demonstrated to me the very real connection of Karate to Chinese economy of movement in forms.

this thread is just for open thoughs on the subject, but a question on the side for Chinese art practitioners is: when applying/studying your forms...how do you decipher where you are striking? or does it matter since maybe you are just looking at it in terms of the principles of movement itself and not the principle of application?

thanks for any thoughts on this.

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#297496 - 10/30/06 12:19 PM Re: Showing strike follow-thru in forms [Re: Ed_Morris]
ashe_higgs Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
Loc: phoenix
hear that?

it's a can of worms being opened.

here's our first form;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NiN6jo0n0U

look at the movement from 46 thru 52. there is a "hidden" strike there. after the scoop the idea is to come up from underneath your opponents gaurd. if you can you follow through with a rib strike, however if you do get jammed you continue the movemnt to what you see here, which is to come up from under the gaurd and hook thier arms from the outside.

again at 3:11 thru 3:18. this time you see the strike but not the qinna. after you grab the opponents wrsit and pull them down and forward, you turn the wrists over so thier elbow point up, then you rush in. otherwise is another rib strike.

the proper use of the form is to train basic principle in flowing continuous movment, not to practice various techniques.
_________________________
falling leaves discipline, concentration & wisdom

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#297497 - 10/30/06 12:22 PM Re: Showing strike follow-thru in forms [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
You karate guys are sooooo slow in the uptake.

Quote:

when actually applied with full force and intent, many non-linear strikes simply don't stop on contact...they follow-thru. from something my instructor recently pointed out when looking at Goju kata, many of strikes are on a eliptical path, but then stop - this seemingly indicates where the point of contact is...but when we executing the kata with ALL followthru - I was amazed at what the form transformed into...it looked indistiquishable from many Chinese forms. continuous arm movement, as oppossed to Karate's signature 'stop at contact' illustration.

this was a real eye opener, because it clearly demonstrated to me the very real connection of Karate to Chinese economy of movement in forms.

this thread is just for open thoughs on the subject, but a question on the side for Chinese art practitioners is: when applying/studying your forms...how do you decipher where you are striking? or does it matter since maybe you are just looking at it in terms of the principles of movement itself and not the principle of application?

thanks for any thoughts on this.



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#297498 - 10/30/06 03:53 PM Re: Showing strike follow-thru in forms [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Quote:

You karate guys are sooooo slow in the uptake.



apparently so, judging by the facinating discussion this has led to.

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#297499 - 10/30/06 08:09 PM Re: Showing strike follow-thru in forms [Re: Ed_Morris]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

when applying/studying your forms...how do you decipher where you are striking?



Some strikes are obvious and some are not. I think a bit part of it, (in bagua anyways), is learning how to move with continuous power, so that any given point could translate into a technique.
The intent of the strike generaly dictates where I am striking and how I am striking.
Quote:

does it matter since maybe you are just looking at it in terms of the principles of movement itself and not the principle of application?



I look at it in both ways at the same time. I look at it as, how can I apply the principle of movement to my form?
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#297500 - 02/17/07 05:57 AM Re: Showing strike follow-thru in forms [Re: Ed_Morris]
Peter32 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 10
Perhaps it's because of my Kung Fu training; but in my Karate I've never thought of it stopping of contact. I usually think of the strike as hitting a couple inches before the movement stops.

I believe the idea behind the Karate stops, is one to build focus (and I have noticed it being easier to build focus with the stops between the moves; however I have also noticed that it can be done with the flowing movemnts, it just takes longer). Two, you stop when your body is at it's strongest, if I were to go further with my spearhands in Sanchin I'd have to start bending at the waist, which would weaken the overall strike and kill my whole-body connections.

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