FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 38 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bartfast, ZapEm, AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc
22906 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 8
AndyLA 5
Ed_Morris 4
ergees 2
VDJ 2
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
New Topics
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Recent Posts
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
Yesterday at 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
Yesterday at 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Dobbersky
08/11/14 05:03 AM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
Forum Stats
22906 Members
36 Forums
35571 Topics
432477 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#296128 - 10/24/06 11:02 PM MMA & Philosophy
vegantkd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 121
I am curious if MMA teaches any kind of philosophy along with actual fighting techniques. My only fighting experience is with TKD and Boxing. As a TKD practioner we learn a lot of philosophy on the type of person we need to be. These are strict guidelines. I'm also a boxing trainer. We teach our fighters to be respectable and stay clean. But outside of that, nothing strict. So I wondered how MMA fits into that.

Top
#296129 - 10/25/06 05:38 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
It depends on the gym, but the general attitude is that you don't need to be taught explicitly how to be a good person, you can learn that as a matter of course. Adding in the philosophy is wedging another culture into the martial art, while MMA is about getting to the essence of fighting.

Top
#296130 - 10/25/06 08:48 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: migo]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Migo,
Philosophy is not nessecarily something added from the outside or another culture. The philosophy of an art exists not only in the individual but in it's process and practice. On way to determine a groups philosophy is to understand what it values and what behaviors it reinforces. I would like to hear from others on the topic.

Some of the words I imagine I would see in the discussion would be

Pragmatic

Practical

alive

utilitarian

and evolutionary.

By the way, any MMA practioner that doesn't understand what debt he owes to Krishnamurti is missing out.

How about "pragmatic evolutionary utilitarianism"

Top
#296131 - 10/25/06 10:47 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
It fits right into it, just as you said, a little respect and not much else..it's all about fighting and staying alive in the cage.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

Top
#296132 - 10/25/06 11:07 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
In MMA, the philosophy is in the process.

The work ethic, the helping of others in improving and reaching goals, the humility associated with tapping out to someone who has achieved a finishing hold, the self control in training realistically hard but stopping short of hurting your training partners, etc.

Last but not least...(from the topic of another thread) the maturity of not bragging and boasting of one's exploits in training or competition but instead enjoying the quiet confidence that you can walk it without talking it.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

Top
#296133 - 10/25/06 11:26 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Fletch1]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Well said, Fletch. I was trying to think of how to articulate it, but you did a great job.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#296134 - 10/25/06 12:02 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: oldman]
vegantkd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 121
Can you explain what you mean about Krishnamurti?

Top
#296135 - 10/25/06 12:22 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: oldman]
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
Wow oldman! it's great to know I'm not the only one on this forum who knows of Krishnamurti!!!

*is happy ^_^*
_________________________
The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

Top
#296136 - 10/25/06 12:22 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
V,
Krishnamurti was for lack of a better word a philosopher. His work was influential on many levels and to many people. His writting influenced martial artists like Bruce Lee and contemporary Martial artists as well. You can find his work referenced in Matt Thortons SBG site also.

Top
#296137 - 10/25/06 12:23 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Google is our friend.

Top
#296138 - 10/25/06 12:29 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: oldman]
vegantkd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 121
oh yeah, i know who krishnamurti is. i just meant was there anything specific he wrote about that has significance to martial artists. i am not very familiar with his works but i will look into it.

Top
#296139 - 10/25/06 12:39 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
V,
The point is not that what he wrote was related to martial arts. The writing and his thought pertained to the whole of life and living not just a portion of life. It could appreciated by anyone not just martial artists.

Top
#296140 - 10/25/06 03:11 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: schanne]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

It fits right into it, just as you said, a little respect and not much else..it's all about fighting and staying alive in the cage.




This I can agree with and what I have seen from others involvement in MMA. New comers don't get the respect from my experience as the top dogs have the ego and new comers are generally meat. Those that can tough it out later earn the respect and then they work well together to train. The thing is too many people head into MMA schools that train fighters who actually fight and they think they are tough and know all of that. Many can't cut it and they get tuned in very quickly and the others that can hang in may never be MMA fighters but they are good partners to train with and by working with these more elite fighters, their own skills increase.

Again this is my experience with MMA schools that "train" fighters to fight and this may not necessarily be the same for MMA schools such as John Kogas that teach MMA on a different level and is for everybody who wants to give it a try. I'm sure with a school like this there is much more respect.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#296141 - 10/25/06 05:40 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Dereck]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
First of all, Fletch nailed it in MY opinion. Very well said there bro.

Secondly, Dereck is right in many ways himself. I've experienced the same mentality (survival of the fitest). I suppose it depends on the group you're working with. All gyms are generally reflections of the group leader.

I have always been more into philosophy myself. Perhaps that's why I run my gym the way I do. To me, it isn't about winning and feeling the need to "tap everyone out" that's within sight. It's about learning, sharing the art and working to create an environment where EVERYONE helps everyone else to grow and be the best they can become. I preach that a lot so, I suppose I keep all the guys who feel the same way and lose the guys who don't. Doesn't bother me either way -- I'm not in this for the money (which is good 'cause I damn sure am not making any!)


-John


Edited by JKogas (10/25/06 05:56 PM)

Top
#296142 - 10/25/06 07:00 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I think Fletch gave the best answer possible. Better than mine would have been.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#296143 - 10/25/06 08:58 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: butterfly]
stormbringer Offline
Extraordinaire

Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 277
Loc: Florida
Quote:

Google is our friend.



Try typing in: the answer to life, the universe, and everything and see what you get. back to the topic, I have to agree with the statement that the art itself is a philosophy. I don't yet to MMA, but I plan on complimenting my TKD with Judo. TKD emphasis is on striking, dominant kicking, and several hand techniques. Judo is about the ground fight. My personal philosophy is to be the best I can, and for that, I combine the philosophies of various martial arts to make them my own.
EDITED for typo


Edited by stormbringer (10/25/06 09:00 PM)
_________________________
Brown Belt. Should have my Black by Summer 2008. Jhoon Rhee system

Top
#296144 - 10/26/06 12:17 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: vegantkd]
AndrewGreen Offline
shadow-lurker

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 170
Well, in more traditional styles there are belts, titles, bowing, chain of commands, and tons of formalities which are part of learning respect right? In boxing / MMA there is still respect, without the symbols and "forced" respect.

If I was working with a boxing trainer who was helping me, teaching me knew things, improving my boxing, etc. Well, they would have my respect. I wouldn't snap to attention everytime they talked, call them "sir" or bow everytime they came near me. Those things are in a sense "Artificial" in that they show respect, but don't have to mean it.

Philosophy is the same. It is there, but the "Artificial" or "For show" stuff isn't there. Either you get it or you don't, you don't get to quote some old Chinese guys and fake it when you don't mean it.

A person can snap to attention, bow, "sir" and show all the respect in the world, and not mean any of it. They can also read and quote off all the traditional philosophy you can find and not get or live by any of it.
_________________________

Top
#296145 - 10/26/06 08:41 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: oldman]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
oldman, Rorion Gracie and then Maurice Smith are more responsible for MMA than any philosopher.

Top
#296146 - 10/26/06 09:38 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: migo]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Oooooh, gotta disagree with that. You stepped in it with that one. Mark?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#296147 - 10/26/06 09:47 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Chen Zen]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Quote:

oldman, Rorion Gracie and then Maurice Smith are more responsible for MMA than any philosopher.




Why would I disagree with Migo. I think he is quite insightfull. Myself, Rorian and Moe have all left our imprint on the MMA landscape. Plus I am certain Krishnamurti would not accept responsibility for the phenomenon.

Top
#296148 - 10/26/06 09:52 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: oldman]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Perhaps not but I think it could be bestowed upon him or many others. Im not a philo major or anything but I believe they deserve some credit anyway, perhaps not all, but some.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#296149 - 10/26/06 09:57 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Chen Zen]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Here let me try again...

By the way, any MMA practioner that doesn't understand what debt he owes to Rorian Gracie and Maurice Smith is missing out.

There that pretty much covers it.

Top
#296150 - 10/26/06 10:06 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: oldman]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Im not disregarding either of the two, Gracie or Smith, But I dont think they are solely responsible either.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#296151 - 10/28/06 11:43 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Chen Zen]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
I just said more responsible than a philosopher. Rorion got the UFC going which got everyone paying attention, and Mo Smith was the first guy to get people clued in that crosstraining was necessary. Before him it was still single style grapplers who were dominating. If it hadn't been for them, the philosophes would have been saying the same thing but much less people would be doing it.

Top
#296152 - 10/29/06 01:25 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: migo]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Probably so.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

Top
#296153 - 10/31/06 12:38 AM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Chen Zen]
AndrewGreen Offline
shadow-lurker

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 170
I'd say both where inevitable.

Cross training was a concept that existed long before Mo Smith, and MMA was around long before Rorion Gracie. They where just in the right place at the right time.

Martial arts had, as a whole, been building up such a level of mystique, nonsense, and complete crap being passed as "real" that it was only a matter of time before someone threw down the gloves.


Grappling alone worked because no one knew a damn thing about it at the time. Everyone just ignored it "Fighting is done standing" was the mentallity, and rules where always in place to deal with it. If those grapplers had the level of striking knowledge that the strikers had grappling knowledge it would have been even messier in there.

But it was only a matter of time before people learnt both. And to be honest, Ken Shamrock was at the the time, corss trained right from UFC 1. He was a submission specialist that could stand and trade quite well, was even nick named "One punch Shamrock" for his ability to drop people with one punch.

Rorion and Mo where influential, but not to the level you are elevating them too.
_________________________

Top
#296154 - 10/31/06 12:41 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: AndrewGreen]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Who were more influential then, in your opinion?

Top
#296155 - 04/01/07 02:18 PM Re: MMA & Philosophy [Re: Fletch1]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

In MMA, the philosophy is in the process.

The work ethic, the helping of others in improving and reaching goals, the humility associated with tapping out to someone who has achieved a finishing hold, the self control in training realistically hard but stopping short of hurting your training partners, etc.

Last but not least...(from the topic of another thread) the maturity of not bragging and boasting of one's exploits in training or competition but instead enjoying the quiet confidence that you can walk it without talking it.





What an excellent post.


-John

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, Fletch1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga