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#295915 - 10/26/06 03:06 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Charles Mahan]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
If in a knife fight would you not die if stabbed or cut in the proper place? I think the stakes are the same in any weapos situation and I would treat them all as if my life were in danger. Granted the power is going to affect things. That isnt something I had considered but Im sure it does make a difference in stance work. However, I would prefer the mobility over the power. Thats due to the differences in our training I suppose. As far as the difference in weapons between bo's spears, knives or swords to me there isnt much difference at all. All are essentially stick weapons. The lengths are different, and obviously the steel in a knife spear or sword gives them a particular edge but when it comes down to it, they are all long slender objects in your hand. They just have different ranges. However the movements can be performed with all. You can stab with a bo like you would a sword. It isnt going to penetrate but the technique is there.
When I said hook what i meant is a slicing movement from R to L or vice versa. When i said uppercut, I meant a slice going from the ground upwards along the opponents centerline. I simply dont have the knowledge to present these movements traditional names. And for reference purpose I train gun stick and knife. Now heres how unarmed combat could transfer over. First off the timing and footwork. Good footwork is good footwork any way you look at it IMO. Same with timeing. I think if you can counter well unarmed this carries over. If you can jab hook or uppercut effectively there is no reason with that you couldnt do this armed with a simple adjustment to the wrist. I think if you can block or defend well unarmed that this will transfer over as well.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295916 - 10/26/06 03:12 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Like I said. Without a few years to ground you in the basics of why swords work the way they do, I cannot convince you of anything you do not already believe and will try no further. Topics like this are things that can be talked about forever online to absolutely no avail and make almost as much sense as "what is the absolute best style" conversations. Good luck in your studies.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#295917 - 10/26/06 03:15 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Charles Mahan]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
disappointing to see you give up so soon. The conversation was just getting good. Besides, my beliefs are never concrete. Im a JKD guy. My training changes and evolves constantly. You may have to put it in laymans terms, but i understand the concept just the same.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295918 - 10/26/06 03:34 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
My appologies. I've just been down this road too many times before. I'm sure someone else will chime in.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#295919 - 10/26/06 03:46 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Chen

Sure, knowloge of targets would transfer.

Like I said, I don't think your wrong, just don't agree 100 percent.

The footwork and handleing for using a 26-30 inch long katana is going to be drasctially different from what you need to used an 6 inch knife.

Using a 6 foot bo is different than a 3 foot hanbo or 4 foot jo.

They may be all "stick" weapons--but they have radcially different strentghs and weaknesses--different methods for best use etc.

I feel that if your good at one, then you have skills that can transfer to the other---you just won't be as good as someone that is specifcally trained to use them.

Without knowing the specifics--what is "good footwork" in one field could get you seriously hurt or killed in another.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#295920 - 10/26/06 05:37 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

As far as the difference in weapons between bo's spears, knives or swords to me there isnt much difference at all.




To you, who doesn't have formal training in the sword arts, the sword is the same as other weapons.

To others, who have formal training in sword arts and perhaps other weapon arts (and unarmed training), there is a world of difference.

When you start training, you will empty your cup, and the taste of the tea later on might not be what you imagined it to be. But until you taste it, all the words in the world will not help you know.

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#295921 - 10/26/06 09:36 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: splice]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Perhaps your right. Maybe Im lloking to closely to the movemnts and not the whole picture. I dont know when or if Ill ever get to swordplay formally, but I "play" with the ones I have often. I have various styles from sabers,to katanas, to Tai Chi swords. Tons of other bladed weapons too. I collect. Anyways, thanks for good conversation.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295922 - 10/27/06 12:05 AM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< disappointing to see you give up so soon. The conversation was just getting good. Besides, my beliefs are never concrete. Im a JKD guy. >>

How to phrase this? A bo or jo are sticks. A saber can be viewed as a stick with an edge. But a katana is a 27 inch scalpel.

Those horizontal cuts and upward slices you refer to so blithely would not merely leave a superficial gap across your opponent's abdomen like in Highlander the Series. It would leave him in two segments. Or it could be you if his technique is better.

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#295923 - 10/28/06 04:14 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: iaibear]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I know what a sword is and its capabilities.

Also, there was a point made on the differences of sword vs knife and one of the big points was power. That a sword is primarily about power movements. At first I agreed with this but now I do not. It isnt universal. While Katana weilding Samurai obviously use much power, other arts such as Tai Chi do not. I own a Tai Chi sword and its apparent to me that the strength lies not in the power but the light weight and speed. As would be the same as epee, and other arts and swords.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295924 - 11/03/06 02:21 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
PrimeUniversa69 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 27
Loc: Tenneessee

I guess I'm in luck then,my wooden knife itself is less than one ounce.Its only slightly heavier than a feather.
Although I did carve my knife out of cedar,so that could be why.so it may be brittle.

So it could be that the broadsword,although heavier,and slower in movement,was much more resilient.On the other hand
the kife was slightly weaker.

so it epends on which art style your trying to mastar. Are you tryint to master powerful strokes,are quick agile
movements.

The movements took me less than a year,with some instruction with my fencing teacher.so its all relative
to what you use.

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