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#295885 - 10/24/06 11:30 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
You see, the guys at the top, the ones I said might take notice, they've been doing it 50+ years. Not a single one of them would refer to themselves as a "master". They would all tell you they are still working on things.

It's a lifetime field of study. You never really "get there". It is something some of us choose to do. It's not for everyone.

And what do you mean "will never use"? Sensei "uses" his Iai 4 go 5 times a week.


Edited by Charles Mahan (10/24/06 11:31 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#295886 - 10/24/06 11:41 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Charles Mahan]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Sure he uses it to teach or to practice. But when was the last time you or someone you know was in a life threatening/altering situation involving a sword? Most of the criminals in my area carry guns. Thats what I practice. Thats not to say I dont enjoy other weapons, but not with the same level of devotion.

People looked too closely to the word master. A MAist often will say things like, Im no master or I would never call myslf a master. To me, it seems like a lot of PC stuffiness. I think a lot of these people feel otherwise than what they state. I know if I spent 5o years at something or even 25 that I would be a master. If not, it isnt something that I would continue to pursue because after that amount of time it is likely you will not get better at it.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295887 - 10/25/06 08:31 AM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
V34 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
I don't think people look to much into the word master.
Martial artist rarely or never consider themselves masters.
Unless they are egotystical a-holes. A master is someone who
is flawless in the MA world. You could ask a 6 or 7 dan if
he was a master, if his training was right he would reply
No, I have much more to learn! I have asked many Sensei who
practice Karate and created their own styles and still got
the same response, either they laugh or it is a simple no.
A master is the highest ranked in my mind. I believe the
great Bruce Lee wouldn't even consider himself a master.
Just my 2 cents though.

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#295888 - 10/25/06 09:55 AM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Chen

Kinda depends on exactly why your training.

People may find other benefits to training past the overt fighting skills.

I agree with you about the firearms though.

I always see my training as a sort of "last ditch" method of self defense for use ONLY when I can't get away or get to something I can use as a weapon.

I think you can always get better though--a little faster, a little harder, a little stronger, a little more efficent.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#295889 - 10/25/06 10:27 AM Re: Ten years? [Re: Chen Zen]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

Sure he uses it to teach or to practice. But when was the last time you or someone you know was in a life threatening/altering situation involving a sword? Most of the criminals in my area carry guns. Thats what I practice. Thats not to say I dont enjoy other weapons, but not with the same level of devotion.




If self defense is what you are after, then JSAs are not for you. Buy a gun. There are plenty of other reasons to train.

If you are so worried about dying violently that you feel you need to do learn something to prevent it, you're time would be better spent in defensive driving classes. You are far more likely to die in an auto accident than you are to die in a mugging.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#295890 - 10/25/06 11:14 AM Re: Ten years? [Re: Charles Mahan]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Charles

Interesting you would point that out.

Got into an arguement once with a buddy of mine that does statisticial modeling for a major insurence company--works on risk models.

He was busting my chops over all the time I spend with martial arts training.

He ran the numbers--several times, and was able to prove--to me at least, several things:

-Being smart about where, when and with whom you hang out cuts the chances of being involved in a situation where you need to know how to fight drastically

-Age and lifestyle choices counts more than fighting skills--by a huge margin, ie young folks that are hanging out in cheap dodgy bars are MUCH more at risk than realtivly settled dudes in their 30's with a wife and kids.

-Commen sense used to AVOID dangerous situations is worth MUCH more than the abilty to fight your way out of them

-In a situation that is serious enough to HAVE to use highly injerous or lethal force--firepower counts ie having ready accsess to a firearm and the abilty to use it is worth more than being able to go "mano-a-mano" with some punk.

-Statistically speaking, fit, trained people who move and look and act like they might be able to handle themselevs are FAR less likley to be the victems of attack.

-Statistcally speaking, the chances of anyone being involved in a violent attack are pretty slim--and you can cut those chances down dramatically with a little commen sense.

Bascially he was argeuing that I was wasting my time and money with training when all I "really" needed to do was buy a gun, shoot often and get smarter about how and where and with whom I spent my time.

In effect, me with years of training is not any safer than he is--without ANY training at all.

Further he argued that all that training could be self-defeating--in effect, that I might think I can "handle" a situation when I REALLY should be running like hell.
He KNOWS he can't fight so he is much less likley to get all wrapped up in some kind of "ego" thing that could get him killed.

I beg to differ on several points of his reasoning--but it did make me think.

One of the reasons that I really hope I'm getting more from my training than just the abilty to fight.

You just reminded me of it.


Edited by cxt (10/25/06 11:17 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#295891 - 10/25/06 12:32 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: cxt]
V34 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
CXT you post on some points I would like to make.
First of forth most, we martial artist do this because
we love it and have the passion for it. Second we do it
so we can protect our selves in an imediate altercation.
For example, someone tries to mug us instantly. We can
react and know how to take care of the situation. Can your
friend or anyone who doesn't know MA do this? To some extent
ya, but not really. First reaction to an average Joe is
being scared or frightened. My first reaction is to counter
what my assailent it doing to harm me or my loved ones. Your
friend makes good points but does not know what MA is for and how it should be used. We don't go out looking for fights we are trained so we can prevent harm to oneself
and others. Know what I mean. By the sounds of it your insurance friend doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to MA.

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#295892 - 10/25/06 12:45 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: V34]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
V34

Like I said "I beg to differ on several points in his reasoning."

By which I mean I don't agree with everything he said.

He was not so much attacking MA as he was looking at the underlying assumptions people make about their training.

If people really want to be "safer" then learning to fight is only one of the things that they need to do---and of all of them, learning to fight is probably not the most effective when comapred to changeing your lifestyle, showing more care in where, when and with whom you hang out, etc.


Edited by cxt (10/25/06 12:48 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#295893 - 10/25/06 01:29 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: cxt]
V34 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
True, true. I do find that alot of MA lifestyles are typically very, very mellow. Mine is very mellow. I went
through my bad time just like evryone does but I do have
to admit that if it wasn't for MA and God of course then
I would probably be in jail or dead. MA is very important
for individuals, I sincerely believe this.

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#295894 - 10/25/06 03:29 PM Re: Ten years? [Re: Charles Mahan]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Quote:

Quote:

Sure he uses it to teach or to practice. But when was the last time you or someone you know was in a life threatening/altering situation involving a sword? Most of the criminals in my area carry guns. Thats what I practice. Thats not to say I dont enjoy other weapons, but not with the same level of devotion.




If self defense is what you are after, then JSAs are not for you. Buy a gun. There are plenty of other reasons to train.

If you are so worried about dying violently that you feel you need to do learn something to prevent it, you're time would be better spent in defensive driving classes. You are far more likely to die in an auto accident than you are to die in a mugging.



Jsa. I assume that means Japanese sword art? Correct me if Im wrong on that. As far as a mugging or violent death, sure its less likely for some or most people. However, I now work in very violent areas. The "ghetto" as it is often referred to. While i am not a minority race, I am a minority in these places and not looked upon too kindly as my job now is to evict people from their homes due to non payment. Its not a fun job and its rather uncomfortable at most times.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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