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#295703 - 10/23/06 01:53 PM Throwing a spinning side kick
Twisted Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 19
Loc: Canada
Hey, I'm kind of having trouble getting power on my spinning side kick. I find that when I spin, my leg tends to go more across than going in straight with power. I've seen others do it with power so I know that it must be something I'm doing wrong. Any advice?

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#295704 - 10/23/06 01:57 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Twisted]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1990
Loc: Lorton, VA
Try doing it slower. Break it down, and see exactly where you're going wrong.

It's kind of hard to give advice on this kind of thing without seeing what you are doing.

What does your instructor say?

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#295705 - 10/23/06 03:18 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Twisted]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Consider the path the striking foot takes. If it's to the side, around hip high, it A)follows a longer path, B)is easier to spot & block, C) lacks power because your weight isn't behind it and D) forms a pocket your opponent can jump in if he's quick enough.

Try making a quick, small pivot - almost turning your back to your opponent - then kicking straight at him. Your foot will pass directly under you straight at your opponent.
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#295706 - 10/23/06 03:27 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Twisted]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Do what both Zombie and Ironfoot described. The other thing that I would really like you to look at, as Ironfoot intimated, is the hip placement or extension into the kick. This is what translates the turn and body weight into the kick.

IMO, it is much better when working on this technique to make a mistake by coming forward in the direction of the kick and recovering your balance there, than by leaning back and falling away from where you want the impact to be. The reason, is that in the former case, you might be working it slow, but you will eventually get good body recovery and be able speed the application up with proper impact.

In the latter case, you will not be able to achieve good impact since the body weight won't be in the kick. Falling back is usally a case where students are working on the efficiency of the twist or turn, rather than thinking of the end result of the power in the impact.

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#295707 - 10/23/06 04:09 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Twisted]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Really my advice is to develop the spining back thrust kick not the spnining side kick which leaves your grion exposed longer but does have a little bit more extention. The back kick is quicker and just as powerful without the negative. Also with follow through or tracing you can negate the S back kicks lack of reach compared to the S side kick.

SS is a strong long kick but it does take more time to do leaving you wide open longer. My left tries to do that I've trained that side not to because I like my jewels. Just my 2 cent.


Edited by Neko456 (10/23/06 04:14 PM)
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#295708 - 10/23/06 05:58 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Neko456]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
My advise is to simply not do it. As far as practicallity in techniques goes, this one is way out there. Simplicity. Keep it simple if you want to win.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295709 - 10/23/06 06:56 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Chen Zen]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

My advise is to simply not do it. As far as practicallity in techniques goes, this one is way out there. Simplicity. Keep it simple if you want to win.




He really didn't ask if he should do it or not and it's not our place to be the deciders of what techniques work for everyone. Maybe it's for one of his tests or something. I don't practice spinkicks either,but I won't knock it if someone else wants to.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#295710 - 10/23/06 08:19 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: BrianS]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Tsk Tsk. See what friendly advice gets ya?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295711 - 10/24/06 11:27 AM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: BrianS]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I do practice spin kicks I don't see anything wrong with them done at the right time. Why leave your big guns at home?

In TKD and other systems the SS is trained practicing it slowly and extending while spin will build balance and strength in the technique, remember to recock it and place it down don't just drop it. I'd advice learning to do it with your fist between your legs.

The spining Back kick or SS done at the right time is a powerful attack or counter. Chen even in your highly touted Pride or UFC competition its used with devastating effect.

I don't base its effectiveness off that its a personal thing. I like low spinning back kick espeically once they are hurt or they have their guards up around their head. Appropiate tool and the appropiate time.
If you ever cross train with groin kicking system you will need this and a ss can end with your grion landing on a knee check, by accident.

BrianS this is not to you personal its to the poster and all.


Edited by Neko456 (10/24/06 11:29 AM)
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#295712 - 10/24/06 12:10 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Chen Zen]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Tsk Tsk. See what friendly advice gets ya?




I was just picking at you Chen. It does seem like when someone asks for advice here they get jumped on and lectured about the utility of what they want to learn instead of making that decision on their own.

Who am I to keep people from XMA martial arts?

Who Am I?
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#295713 - 10/24/06 01:37 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Twisted]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Never heard of a spinning side kick, do you mean turning side kick as left foot is forward in fighting stance and you turn counter clockwise and execute a side kick with your right leg?
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#295714 - 10/24/06 01:49 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: schanne]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Schanne,

I guess it is a question of title. I had not heard of a spinning side kick, but in the style I would practice, this would be a turning back kick, since the mechanics would be the same.

I think the problem is that a Back Kick is often described as a kick straight back impacting with the heel...much like a horse would kick. I have seen this, but do not personally use it, despite its efficacy.

On the other hand, whether you call the kick a turning or spinning side kick, the mechanics would have to be the same.

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#295715 - 10/24/06 02:03 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: butterfly]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
The mechanics are the same except one is more full extended and the turn is longer to produce a side kick after turning. Insted of the 180 degree turn for the back kick its more 3/4 turn.
Its a strong kick just too wide open.

The blade of foot almost leveled with the floor rather then the toes mostly pointing down. At a glance it looks the same.


Edited by Neko456 (10/24/06 02:06 PM)
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#295716 - 10/24/06 06:36 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Neko456]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
A "spinning" side-kick sounds as odd as squid ice cream.

I'm familiar w/ turning & spinning back-kicks. The trajectory for a turning b-k is strait in while a spinning b-k is circular. The spinning hook-kick is a variation of the b-k.

And that's the problem w/ a spinning s-k. Expecting the momentum to change from circular to strait is bad mechanics because nothing is gained - no power, no speed, just a "wow factor" from the kids watching.

Unless there's a kick I haven't seen yet, it's just squid ice cream to me.

owari

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#295717 - 10/24/06 08:13 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: BrianS]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I know Brian. Its no biggie. I was foolin off myself. But since i said it I must now back it up. The technique itself is quiet powerful. Perhaps the most powerful of any kick so why would I say not to use it? Well, a few reasons I suppose. One would be that horrible word, "turning" or "spinning" . To me this implies that your back is exposed. Never a good thing. It also implies that your eyes are not upon your enemy. Also not good for me. The second reason is that it leaves you with little options for defense if you miss. If you miss he has your back. If he grapples with skill you are in huge trouble. Suppose he doesnt grapple. You are still in big trouble. Your spine and base of skull are at risk as well as your balance. As far as attacking him again before he gets you what do you have? Not much more than a spinning backfist or elbow and thats the first thing I expect and what I would want from my opponent. This makes it easier to pick him apart, IMO. Perhaps Im wrong, though I doubt it.

But to each his own. I dont train for kata or belt systems so something like this isnt a priority for me. I just like to mess around with you karateka. Always so serious!
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#295718 - 10/25/06 09:52 AM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: hedkikr]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Quote:

... Expecting the momentum to change from circular to strait is bad mechanics because nothing is gained - no power, no speed, just a "wow factor" from the kids watching.
..




Ain't it the truth. My daughter's first boyfriend was a BB from a McDojo. Showed me his butterfly kick, which was a jumping, spinning side kick. When asked if all that added any power, he answered "No, but it's just cool".
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#295719 - 10/25/06 01:37 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Chen Zen]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
It doesn't matter if he grapples or not if you set it up or hurt him then hit it with it or so he lest expected it. Its a damaging kick ass technique ask your buddy MMAist (I'm a fan of his, very skilled standin & ground) Vitor Belfort, drop him like its hot fight over, pretty much.

Thats what I've experience vs. people that are not in as good as shape as Vitor but still thought they were tough.
The spin back kick (I'm still not a fan of the SS) is the body slam of kicks, its the RNC of standing kicks. I've seen people get their ribs broke just sparring with it & knocked over tables with it!!!

Used properly and at the right time it's far more powerful then your left hook, if you can imagine that Chen.
Ask Vitor Belfort next time you see him .


Edited by Neko456 (10/25/06 01:50 PM)

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#295720 - 10/25/06 03:38 PM Re: Throwing a spinning side kick [Re: Neko456]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I know its strong Neko, I said so. However, power isnt everthing. Setting it up may work in sparring but in reality, it doesnt always work. And when it doesnt, you're in a bad bad way. Whether he grapples or not.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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