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#295621 - 10/25/06 08:40 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Snake,

It would be interesting in learning more about your instructors teachings. I have never heard Jing Jow Pai described as you have done so.

Shum Leung Sifu started sharing Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai in New York over 30 year ago. He taught both the Eagle Claw and Wu Tai Chi Chaun which were in his tradition from Jing Wu.

He created a series of Eagle Claw and Wu tai chi chaun videos through ESPY, and wrote several books on Eagle Claw for his students. Part of them were re-issued as Mastering Eagle Claw by Tuttle Press a few years ago and that work contains the first 30 sections of the 108 Locking Form two person set.


Edited by Victor Smith (10/25/06 08:50 AM)
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295622 - 10/25/06 09:54 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Snakeineaglesnes Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 14
I understand what your saying(now, Sorry). For instance, My sifu told me that when he was young he loved combat in everyway. Never really liked forms, so he concentrated on the fighting aspect of eagleclaw which in many ways I think made him a more effective fighter. He still learned the forms, but wasn't interested in learning them until he was more mature. Many people tell us that we fight like Eagleclaw fighters but we dont move like them. They've called us Hybrids (funny). It might be the fact that my sifu has improved the fighting aspect in everyway. Mastery of angles when moving, being there but so evasive (and offensive) that he's not there. Maybe, his just using the style correctly and people aren't use to seeing it.

The first two forms that are taught by my sifu are as follows.

1: White belt form - Not eagleclaw, just a basic form that consists of basic punches, kicks & stances he incorporated.
2: Five animal pattern form - Not eagleclaw, teaches you how to finess your movements and introduces kung fu to the practitioner.

eagleclaw training begins upon completion. I honestly think that the system has been cut down already. In our teaching There are 12 forms before mastery in our style. Which doesn't include the 108 locking techniques and The final exam which consists of everything brought together.(will explain if interested). So I do understand what you mean.

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#295623 - 10/25/06 10:54 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Snakeineaglesnes]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Snake,

In Shum Leung's tradition Eagle Claw is studied very differently.

First a beginner begins with the dozen or so basic Jwing Wu (Ching Wu and all spellings) forms, starting with Tam Tuie, Kung Le Kuen and even 2 person sets.

Only after them do the kuen (forms) of eagle claw begin and they have over 75 of them. Some are incredibly long (Hon Kuen, Lin Kuen and Eagle tames tiger) and complex.

There is also an extensive weapons tradition, a large part of which builds arm and finger strength as well as the subsidiary exercises.

You study the Eagle Claw principles into the many 2 person sets (there are two different 108 locking sets). The sets show how to set up an attack and then complete it with differnet locks.

From there they progress into eagle claw sparring, which allows any attacks at all, but is never conclued till a person is locked, and each round they must use an entirely different lock.

The Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai tradition, as I only have the slighest knowledge, is very complex and all of interrelates to form the complete eagle claw stylist as Shum Sifu taught it.

It appears your tradition is quite different.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295624 - 10/25/06 01:45 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Victor Smith]
Snakeineaglesnes Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 14
Indeed So. The Sparring is diffently the same. My Sifu makes us do stances for a year before we can even touch hands. I can understand the two 108 locking techniques because of the 8 years I've studied I learned more then 108 locking techniques. My Sifu emphisizes more in fighting techniques, Combat and Stances. For instance, deep Horse stances and transition training, Kicking from an incredibly low stance without rising(making for less reaction time). Its slow in the begining but after constant training blazing fast speed will accur. All our kicks are thrown from the same chamber position making it in readable,chamber position is 90* sideways so trapping can't occur. Combat oriented

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#295625 - 11/08/06 03:52 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Snakeineaglesnes]
tailiugug Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Utah
I have studied northern eagle as a young boy, not comlete forms but fist methods, I however am a instructor in a southern tempel art called tai liu chuan fa (tai liu translates out to king of birds) I am wondering how many of the princables are the same. for example in tai lui the eagle practioner never strikes with its feathers. meaning with a open hand a eagle will always strike with the "ridge hand" side and not the "knife hand" is this the same in northern eagle?

with much respect
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#295626 - 11/08/06 06:44 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: tailiugug]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
tailiugug,

No Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai uses a very wide range of strikes, more an inclusive Chinese system than an exclusive system.

It's primary striking is done with fists, forearms, palms, from my experience, but I imagine almost evey sort of strike finds it place.

The main focus of the system is to set an opponent up for the claws/chin na/locks of eagle claw.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295627 - 11/12/06 08:32 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Victor Smith]
tailiugug Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Utah
Mr. Smith

I clearly did not express myself very well the southern eagle of tai lui has many strikes from a multitude of body parts and fist/ hand postures. with low kick and lots of locks, but each animal with in the system has certain standards and practices that helps each animal stand out. for example the bear is very powerfull a standard of the bear might be that it never blocks with its claws/hand instead it block/redirects by blending with the forearms/ elbows at the same time striking with it claws,palms often followed by double strikes to the midsection. each animals has mind sets that help the practitioner to transform into that animal. I am just wondering how many of these standards are the same between north and south.
_________________________
pain is joy

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#295628 - 11/12/06 08:59 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: tailiugug]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I remember one time when my friend/instructor was asked about that aspect of Northern Eagle Claw in particular and animal sets in general.

His position is the use of animal terminology is only symbolic. Physiologically it is impossible to perform a technique as an animal would. He felt the use of animal terminology was more a focus of one aspect of a systems training.

His back ground is Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai, Tai Tong Long, Sil Lum, Pai Lum, Yang Tai Chi Chaun and Wu Tai Chi Chaun, as well as many other training studies.

In my own studies I believe his answer makes sense.

Obviously others hold differing answers.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295629 - 12/10/06 10:44 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Victor Smith]
metempsychosis Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 12
Hi, I'm seriously considering learning ying jow pai eagle claw starting this summer and was wondering if you know if Leung Shum is still instructing in the NYC location or anywhere else in NY. Thanks, any info appreciated.

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#295630 - 12/25/06 12:19 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: metempsychosis]
TamTui Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 5
Master Leung Shum drops by on some Saturdays at the current location where YJP trains. It is at Fighthouse, 122 West 27th Street, 2nd Floor, New York, NY 10001. You can drop in on any of the days indicated at the official website (http://www.yingjowpai.com) or call Sifu Cecil Jordan at (212) 213-8805 to verify. You try a class on the first day you visit. Classes are $10 per class per day and there are no contracts so you have very little to lose. There is also a Chinese New Year celebration planned and I think it will be on Sunday February 18 at the Fighthouse location. There will be a lion dance and demos from YJP students and everyone who trains at Fighthouse. Call for details.

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