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#295611 - 10/23/06 07:17 AM Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai)
Snakeineaglesnes Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 14
Hello everyone. Just want to introduce myself, you can call me eagle. I've been doing eagleclaw Kung fu for over 9 years, My instructor has studied eagleclaw for over 38 years. I'm just wondering if there is anyone else out there who studied Eagleclaw for a long time in order to exchange thoughts. I've only met two eagleclaw kung fu practitioners since I began training. Sifu & his son. Everyone is welcome to talk about techniques etc.

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#295612 - 10/23/06 07:26 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Snakeineaglesnes]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Where do you train eagle claw?
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#295613 - 10/23/06 08:20 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Snakeineaglesnes]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi,

I've had a little experience in Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai. I started studying Yang Tai Chi with Ernest Rothrock Laoshi about 30 years ago, and along the way studied a bit of various Chinese systems from him to learn more about the Chinese arts.

He shared Hon Kuen with me many years ago as well as various studies in the Eagle Claw principles and applications.

I'm not an Eagle Claw stylist, but appreciate the depth of the system.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295614 - 10/23/06 10:33 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Snakeineaglesnes]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Your Sifu has no other students except you and his son?

I have great respect for YJ stylists. Though I don't do it specifically, I've don't some finger/thumb conditioning to get that Eagle grip, such as hanging around with just the index and middle fingers and thumb push-ups. What does your system do to get the Eagle grip?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#295615 - 10/24/06 08:03 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
ButterflyPalm,

As likely the world's only Ying Jow Pai hobbiest, I'd like to give you my insructors answer on the greatest tool to craft the Eagle grip.

While there are various training aids, he feels the most important tool to develop the grip is decades of work on the forms, each time performing each claw in those forms with the correct positioning and grip.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295616 - 10/24/06 09:29 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Victor Smith]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Yeah, but not the way the Wu Shu people do it these days. They do it so fast, there is really no time (or perhaps no intention) to form and execute the grip properly and put 'bite' into it.

One way Wu Shu is killing the Art. Same with the Tiger Claw, which should be done fairly slow with full sinew twisting power from the shoulders to the claw.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#295617 - 10/24/06 11:26 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I doubt that WuShu is killing Northern Eagle Claw, those forms are based on other Chinese Eagle traditions, IMO.

In fact Shum and his instructors (from Hong Kong) traveled to China looking for other Ying Jow Pai, and they found no trace of it. It is likely when it was 'exported' to Hong Kong and Jing Wu it left China, at least as far as any traced remain.

Today in Hong Kong, there is no formal group studying the art. Apprently it is too time consuming (takes decades) and everyone has to work too hard at their jobs.

In NYC Shum Leung has retired, and there are schools there and through my instructor in Pittsburgh and a few other locations.

Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai may just be to complex to survive. It took my instructor over 25 years to get all of it. Will others spend that time, and will the resources be available if they wish to do so?

A very practical, elegant, complex tradition, that may well be disappearing.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#295618 - 10/24/06 10:56 PM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Victor Smith]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

A very practical, elegant, complex tradition, that may well be disappearing.




Sad really as it is one of the oldest and rather intimidating styles which goes for the jugular, literally. In a way the old practitioners were to blame because I remembered in the old days it was a very secretive style and not shown often in public over here. Now I hardly hear of them anymore.

If it is to survive, it has to make some compromising. Cut it down and just retain the essence of the art. Integrate all the lengthy forms into something more manageable. Come up with a coherent, graded syllabus. The problem is those who know the whole art are probably too old to bother and maybe felt that tampering with centuries old traditions is sacrilegious.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#295619 - 10/25/06 02:47 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Snakeineaglesnes Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 14
Both of you have made some interesting points. The style is deffinately one of the rarest style out there. My sifu's Instructor was a very wise old(but powerful from the stories I've heard)man. He taught my instructor defferently. My instructor was taught to break everything, even while defending. He has officially mastered that. His sifu said that when your an old man you cant try to keep up with the youth, youth is a precious thing.(Break everything). I believe the eagleclaw out there isn't really like that anymore. Watered down Maybe? dont know. but thats the point im getting to I rather lose a style before seeing it watered down. My instructor was an only student training traditionaly 6 hours a day in the islands everyday. Even when his instructor stayed in the house, Pure dedication. Thoughts apprecieted.

For the grip training I believe in the longevity training as well. for those that are in a rush I train with a dumb bell edge(grip vigorously and release). This Shum guy sounds like In interesting Sufu. (sounds alot like my instructor)except for my instructor still trains everyday 3 hours a day, runs 10 miles everymorning and lift weights for an hour.(crazy huh)

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#295620 - 10/25/06 06:53 AM Re: Nothern Eagle Claw (Ying Jow pai) [Re: Snakeineaglesnes]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

I rather lose a style before seeing it watered down.




You got me wrong. Cutting down does not have to mean watered down. In fact it can actually make it more effective.

When you cut down, you cut down on the peripheral matters and you retain and teach the essence of the art and the students get to the core of the art faster. Only people who have mastered everything can know what is the core and what are peripherals. In all chinese martial arts, some parts are meant for demonstrations and exhibitions.

Look at karate. Would you consider it an art that retains the core combat principles of its Chinese ancestry or a watered down Chinese art devoid of any progenic value?

I suppose arguments can be forwarded on both sides of the fence; But it is a compromise and certainly not perfect. I am in favour of saving the Eagle, even if it is in a Zoo.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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