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#294820 - 10/19/06 04:20 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
eric235u Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 38
Loc: MA
the best sparring instruction i've so far received was from a sociopath wacko who should stay far from my family at all times. but i may wander back to some nice karate folks who think bodhidarma invented it all, which is silly, just because they're such good people.

we learn from everybody? i think.
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#294821 - 10/19/06 04:25 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: eric235u]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Sure...the possibility is there for each person to learn something from every encounter. But this is about karate.

I suppose, people stuck in duality, are going to continue to come up with arguments about why it's okay to learn good technique from jerks. My mundane response would be: why would you support and enable this line of instruction? By supporting this type of training, in effect one helps it to spread. It becomes a 'standard', and accepted.

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#294822 - 10/19/06 04:29 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
yeah, grumpy, staunch karate traditionalists are an odd lot....wonder where all the hate comes from? not enough attention from sensei?

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#294823 - 10/19/06 04:36 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
eric235u Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 38
Loc: MA
"...good person karate and bad person karate.

If you think about it...karate is karate. It involves gruesome techniques...and can be quite...dirty...in it's applications. The only real difference...is the person..."

if Mr. Miyagi & the Cobra Kai instructor are of equal ability, as your original arguement suggests, then of course i vote for Miyagi. but if not...
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#294824 - 10/19/06 04:38 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: eric235u]
eric235u Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 38
Loc: MA
sensei never loved me

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#294825 - 10/19/06 04:40 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Harlan,

In this case, I think you have to disengage the instruction from the instructor. There are always bad representations of styles, technical and personality-wise. However, this does not say that the style itself or the merits of its education should be measured in the same basket as all its proponents.

Similarly, if the guy is a jerk, you can take what you can from him, and like a cat shoveling sand on excrement, leave with a nod of the head. And, let's not forget, there are levels to goofiness too. At some point you can tolerate certain actions, at others, you have to pick up your bags.

I still separate knowledge from the person teaching. But you are right, if things pass a level for me, I do stand my ground and refuse instruction despite its merits for the sake of my integrity by association. There are always shades of gray.

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#294826 - 10/19/06 04:48 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: butterfly]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
I disagree completely.

Quote:

Harlan,

In this case, I think you have to disengage the instruction from the instructor.



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#294827 - 10/19/06 04:59 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
eric235u Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 38
Loc: MA
"To be known as someone who trained under a person of poor character...it does count."

i prefer to stand on my own two feet (or at least try). but i think what Harlan says here is generally true for most people.

of course we don't know about a specific example, but if the guys a scumbag, put a beatin' on him and go your own way. no reason to waste time with a fool, but maybe nothing wrong with learning his tricks on your way out the door.

p.s. i see we're neighbors, don't come kick my ass just because we disagree. i just read an article about that actually happening in England!
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#294828 - 10/19/06 05:06 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Here's a clip of what got me 'deactivated' at a particular private forum:

The thread subject was traditions in karate. at one point (after I was being insulted), I decided to switch gears and ask very particular tradition questions which I already knew the answer to. just like clockwork, they responded with anger (since they obviously didn't know the particulars of their own traditions)....

title of the thread: "Protcol, Uniforms, and why do we do this stuff." (the thread was created by the Admin of that forum)

Admin:
Quote:

Ed, This isn't "20 questions." Let me refresh your memory: This is a forum largely peopled by senior martial artists in traditional ryu who wanted to have a place to talk shop. Most of us are beyond the level of questioning why we do things or what is tradition. We are comfortable with all that and are willing to accept the fact that there are different levels of tradition and dojo kun in the various ryu and kai. Our commonalities far outweigh our differences. Most of us are comfortable enough with ourselves and our arts not to get all upset over a few inconsistencies or unanswered questions. Are we going to spend our time trying to answer a bunch of stupid mudansha level questions from some disgruntled seeker...NO. So, in South Georgia talk, "If you don't want to run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. If you can't bite, don't bark."




me:
Quote:

fair enough Gene, it's your forum. I felt as though it was warented, so I did bite back...and tried to stay on topic while doing so.

If you really do feel our commonalities far outweigh our differences (which I very much agree with), then why are you and others so quick to judge?

and what's Rob's problem? his attitude doesn't get called on?

the atmosphere here seems to deter people from challenging others. challenging points of view IS part of what a forum is about....or a forum can just be a clubhouse of like-minded people, with the noobs throwing out softball questions and the experienced pating each other on the back.

I enjoy hearing honest criticsm, sometimes it's difficult to take...but if it's honest, I accept it. guesses and rush to judgements based on emotional reactions thru use of insults, reach me as humor at best. and believe me, I'm the first to laugh at myself...and without always needing a mirror, either. lol. nobody can insult me better and more cutting than myself.

so once again, appologies for the derailment. I think I'll follow Narda's lead and just pop in and read once in a while. I'm interested in where this thread will go. The irony of it's title "Protcol, Uniforms, and why do we do this stuff." , comparred to your statement: "Most of us are beyond the level of questioning why we do things or what is tradition." is actually pretty funny when you think about it.




Admin later responding to someone else:
Quote:

The issue is Ed's neurotic need to stir [censored]. Either that or he can't get his f**king mind around what this forum is about. If he keeps on he is about to join Harlan. f**k him.




me:
Quote:

Harlan asked to be taken off the forum...she wasn't kicked out, tough guy.

you crossed a line with me Gene.

please also remove my name from your 'forum'. Your online 'giri' speaks loud and clear of where you are in your angry, empty core.




I'd never in my lifetime bother to visit that person....either for a cup of coffee or for training. regardless of technical skill or whether or not he was picking up the coffee tab. lol

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#294829 - 10/19/06 06:01 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Blimey, did i miss all this???????

only joking.................................!
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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