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#294840 - 10/20/06 07:31 AM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
sounds like it was at least in the right order! first learned Go, then learned Ju. ...then realized both.

harlan: There are a few priorities that come before, for me: Family-Health-Job-Happiness. As long as training doesn't serve counter-productive to these priorities, I train.

#294841 - 10/20/06 10:40 AM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: Ed_Morris]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
BrianS thats a good analogy it sorta shows where you came from like your Sensei are somewhat parent figure building how you view the art, character and morals.

My Inital Instructors where different in many ways.

Sensei Tony was a private instructor he taught very informal and his real ambition was to be a singer. A very good fighter and a mixed martial artist back in the 70s. He was a lifer brat parents in the military and he was well traveled. He was only a Nidan. A small man in size but big in heart. He never talked about fighting but never backed down if threaten though he would try to walk away. If you didn't let him he'd drop ya.

Sensei Micheal was a one eyed ex-con that was a pretty good guy just raised in the wrong neighborhood and didn't hide from it. He was a product of his main instructor a hard man while training but down to earth outside the dojo. He seemed always be into a fights even though he looked like the type that you didn't mess with. A very powerful man he taught me many things about the art and fighting. One was never try to take advantage of the handicap, if you fought to his blind side he would beat you down. I never seen Mike Challenge anyone but he fought whoever want to no matter how big or strong, even the small he didn't lighten up. I had heard many stories about his Sensei, Rod Wilson, mostly that he was crazy. After taking me so far Mike formally introduced me to Sensei Wilson.

Sensei Wilson had been on the street since he was 13 bc of a broken family, he lived in the dojangs and dojos. He said that they saved his life and stopped him from being apart of the street life. He had lived around his Oriental teachers and cleaned up there dojo to make end meet. So he took their ways or the ways they let him see. In short Rod was crazy the weirdest test and blood was just a part of training. He Marshalled the MA in our area, charlatons were watched and challenge but never in front of their Class. The Challenge was to take off the 10th or 5th dan or prove it in a match, usually after watching his skilled they went back to Nidan or Sandan. This can get you sued now. His thoughts were that MAs are the knights of society and we should help socitey when ever we could. A strange man when U really got to know him. Crazy still. Admirable in the MA was his life. I do think he had a identiy crisis and some other emotional problems a nice guy but Crazy under a short microscope. He was not very well known outside of our state wasn't into Tournaments much.
Notice back in the day some people learned Karate to defend themselves not win trophies (Mike was into Competing beating up other BB regradless if he placed, or not)

Almost a novel sorry. I'm not concise like BrianS

Edited by Neko456 (10/20/06 10:47 AM)

#294842 - 10/21/06 12:47 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
Boomer Offline

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
One thing that stuck with me that my iai jutsu sensei told me was "An evil soul begets an evil sword". This can be applied to any art. Anything labelled "martial" is going to require some level of discipline. In the army, we had "good" soldiers and "bad"'s up to the individual to choose his own heiho. You can lead a horse to water....
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

#294843 - 10/21/06 06:07 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: harlan]
fileboy2002 Offline

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL

The only real the person.

Forgive me, but this sounds like a variation on one of the most common and most of MA cliches: "It is the artist, not the art."


As I have said elsewhere on this board, statements like this do not come from an honest, critical appraisal of the strengths and weaknesses of various styles. Rather, it is a political statements designed to keep peace within the MA community.

Despite differences in skill, talent, and motivation among individual students, the fact is some style CONSISTENTLY produce better fighters than other styles. The critical factor is realism. For example, boxers, judoka, and Muay Thai practioners engage in highly realstic "fights" as a regular part of their training. One realistic bout with an actively resisting opponent is worth about 10 billion hours of kata practice.

Furthermore, this realism shapes the very nature of the arts who engage in it. Ineffective techniques are quickly revealed as such and either improved or discarded; likewise, effective techniques are identified and improved. This kind of dynamic, reality-based learning process simply does not go on in most MAs, where the emphasis is on preserving the "tradition."

Let me put it another way: I am a 4th dan TKD black belt with 23 years experience. I love my art, and have used it successfully to defend myself on two occasions. I feel confident I can handle most self-defense situations I might run into.

However, I am also 37. I work a full-time job. I have many interests and obligations other than training. There is just no way I am going to stand much of a chance against some 26 year old professional Thai boxer, Olympic judoka, or MMA competitor who trains full-time and fights for a living. And there is no shame in admitting this.

#294844 - 10/21/06 08:15 PM Re: Two 'schools' of karate [Re: fileboy2002]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Well, I have to admit to being very new to the martial arts. I am sure that most folks involved in karate have a similar pragmatic perspective. After all...if the fundamental reason for studying martial arts is to ensure the survival of the fittest...then it is about optimizing one's toolkit.

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