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#294722 - 10/22/06 01:56 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
4. CREATE A SENSE OF URGENCY AND DESPARATION: THE DEATH-GROUND STRATEGY
You are your own worst enemy. You waste precious time dreaming of the future instead of engaging in the present. Cut your ties to the past; enter unknown territory. Place yourself on 'death ground', where your back is against the wall and you have to fight like hell to get out alive.

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#294723 - 10/23/06 07:39 AM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
PART II ORGANIZATIONAL (TEAM) WARFARE

5. AVOID THE SNARE OF GROUPTHINK: THE COMMAND-AND-CONTROL STRATEGY
The problem in leading any group is that people inevitably have their own agendas. You have to create a chain of command in which they do not feel constrained by your influence yet follow your lead. Create a sense of participation, but do not fall into groupthink -- the irrationality of collective decision making.

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#294724 - 10/23/06 09:40 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Ed_Morris]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Quote:

4. CREATE A SENSE OF URGENCY AND DESPARATION: THE DEATH-GROUND STRATEGY
You are your own worst enemy. You waste precious time dreaming of the future instead of engaging in the present. Cut your ties to the past; enter unknown territory. Place yourself on 'death ground', where your back is against the wall and you have to fight like hell to get out alive.


Not sure i agree with this one. It seems like it would add more stress to my already stress filled life. Other than that everything looks good so far.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#294725 - 10/24/06 09:43 AM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Chen Zen]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
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this isn't a self-help book.

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#294726 - 10/24/06 12:50 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Ed_Morris]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
Quote:

4. CREATE A SENSE OF URGENCY AND DESPARATION: THE DEATH-GROUND STRATEGY
You are your own worst enemy. You waste precious time dreaming of the future instead of engaging in the present. Cut your ties to the past; enter unknown territory. Place yourself on 'death ground', where your back is against the wall and you have to fight like hell to get out alive.




Perhaps true on an individual level, but not on a group level. Roman armies that have been surrounded or pushed together (Legionairies required 3sq ft of room to operate effectively) are annihilated. Greek armies that fell out of Phalanx were annihilated.

At least for ancient warfare I've seen, having your back against the wall means you're pretty screwed....

Morale is also important. It seems counter-productive to instill desperation in order to get people to fight harder, and the importance of high morale among troops.

I'll look into my books more on this one, see if I can dig up some Roman examples of sheer desperation turning them into super legionaries.
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#294727 - 10/24/06 02:24 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
vegantkd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 121
Well the way I see it is this: we all can agree that we fight our hardest when our back is against the wall. But if we fight like our back is against the wall (i.e. our hardest)all the time, the likelihood of it coming down to such a desperate position diminishes.
To relate this to a modern-day non-war point, say you work on commission. If you work your ass off all the time, you hopefully won't get to a point where you're wondering what you're going to do this month because you haven't made any sales.

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#294728 - 10/24/06 02:30 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
There is a particular 'mind set' that kicks in...when you 'know' you are going to die. At least for the average civilian, such as myself, there is a release of caution. Not so much as becoming desperately superhuman, so much as one becomes open/willing to try other avenues/opportunities/strategies.

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#294729 - 10/24/06 02:36 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
for a good example in history, look to Cortez in the Spanish conquest of Mexico against the 1 million strong Aztec empire. After onshore a while, his men were growing uneasy and were talking of mutany to return home to their families in Spain via escape to Cuba. Cortez order the ships to be scuttled so his men had no choice but to push on with him as their only way home.

The Russians during WWII, particularly in defense of their homeland against German invasion, had strict policies and enforcement of deserters on a battlefield. Deployed in the rear of fighting units would be machine gunners who's only mission it was to enforce this policy, and only as a last resort, they would engage the actual enemy.

I think the lesson here is we become more commited to the fight when our options are limited. limiting one's options on purpose to aquire this state of mind is sometimes strategically wise for the greater cause.

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#294730 - 10/24/06 02:54 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Ed_Morris]
vegantkd Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 121
Mr. Morris, I like this. Basically, having your back up against the wall gives you no choice but to move forward.

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#294731 - 10/24/06 08:41 PM Re: 33 Strategies of War [Re: Ed_Morris]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Quote:

this isn't a self-help book.


W-w-wWhat?!?!?! are ya sure?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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