ah...I think I'm seeing it. of course! overhead circular movement. It appears in Saifa...with guess what? a hammerfist then uppercut. It may be a bit more stylized than what I'm used to seeing, but the mechanics are essentially there.

thanks for taking the time to do that Victor. that really is interesting.

Hi Ed,

This form is so intense. The other techniques as I quickly remember are more standard flowers, the one done open hand and the ones I do are closed fist.

When you think about it, the gentleman doing the form really knows his stuff. Not just doing it but spending 2 hours explaining each detail. Even to the point of sharing it is unreal.

Nothing replaces really training with him of course.

One of the things I find interesting is the form is done more at a karate style of stance than many Northern forms. Whether becuase of the performer's age, or becuase of design, but it makes it easier for I as a karate-ka to understand its movement.

As a Reverse-engineer of Kata I find this a truly fascinating form! It is the kind of thing I live to study because as Victor pointed out, it is almost without doubt a system in its own right.

I find it interesting to note that in observing the form a few times I feel I can understand a reasonable portion of it and whether my guesses as to its application are correct or not, it certainly adds credance to the idea of forms being gaurded codices of SE Asia's fighting systems. Had I been trained in the same culture (and period) and in similar arts to those hidden in the 5/8 movements it probably wouldn't take long to decipher the form at all...

Then again perhaps the very fact that it requires dedicated study to understand forms is the reason for their existence as opposed to drawn manuals that give it all away? If so it would seem to me to be a very relevant method of instruction even today.

I think one of the truly valuble things this presentation of the Shaolin 5/8 shows us is how the form develops different energy release in its techniques.

This is where the more important study of form/kata lies, as a tool to shape and develop specific mechanical energy release, that just practicing individual techniques will not address.

The longer Chinese forms just make it more obvious, and IMVHO, many karate studies don't touch this to a great extent.

But forms in and of themselves are just tools that accompany other studies, two person practices of many levels.

It's rare a program can address all of the potential studies, as it's rare there are people willing to spend the time really crafting thier art to its fullest degree.

But I really feel that Shaolin 5/8 helps make a case to consider (even if you don't rush out an try and learn the form.

Here are several other super Chinese formms.

Chinese Wushu - Misuquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ3i0ss2wQI&mode=related&search=

Mizong Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bCBSYLvnk4