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#293784 - 11/02/08 01:16 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: berserkerofdeath]
berserkerofdeath Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Spokane, WA
That said, I am glad to see that more ranges are being used in the UFC nowadays. From a functionality perspective, it is improving.

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#293785 - 11/02/08 01:37 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: berserkerofdeath]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

Tito dominated the match, that was impressive. But then he flipped Ken Shamrock off when Ken was trying to go over and shake his hand. Ken Shamrock just wanted to retire with dignity and put aside bad blood, and that was Tito Ortiz' reaction. After some booing, Tito finally went over and shook his hand, glaring the whole time.





Although I agree that this was pretty dishonourable, I don't really see how this speaks for MMA or the UFC in general. One could say that 'Tito Ortiz has no honour etc," but to try and extend that to UFC and MMA as a whole is nonsense.

I've meet some pro and amateur MMA fighters. From my perspective, many of them were good guys and really good role models. I'm not saying there aren't jerks out there, but certainly no more than in any other martial art. The truth is, I've seen Aikidoka (!) with bigger egos than many MMA fighters. Why? Because they know what it's like to lose. Losing has a way of keeping your ego in check.

I'm all for Classical Jujutsu (I practice it). But to this line about Samurai being somehow intriscally noble/ honourable people (to paraphrase what you're saying) is incredibly flawed and comes off as you being ignorant of the history of old Japan.

These were the same people, after all, who 'tested' their new swords on 'lower class' captives necks. Although certain aspects of the code of Bushido are beautiful, much like the Western concept of Chivelry, the actual reality of life in that time was very diffirent. Of course, there were good Samurai of very high morals and ethics. There were also some who were cruel, power hungry and abusive (especially to the lower classes whom they were supposed to be protecting). Again, it's easy to romanticise the Samurai, but do your research. Like any other group there were good and bad. As a matter of fact, from my research it seems there were more bad than good.

So, maybe the MMA fighters are actually more like the Samurai that you thought, huh?

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#293786 - 11/02/08 05:34 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: Chen Zen]
Proeliator Offline
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Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
Interesting thread...
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#293787 - 11/02/08 06:10 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: Proeliator]
berserkerofdeath Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Spokane, WA
Nobody said the samurai were perfect. But the ideal of the samurai is an aspiration.
Using a religious example, Christians are said to aspire to be 'like Christ.' The Christ they mean is an ideal. I am not going to argue that Christ was or wasn't perfect, but the symbolic Christ is an example the religious use to attempt to better themselves.
So my use of the Samurai is of the samurai ideal, not necessarily the people.

Where the issue with the UFC comes in is that it has never aspired to be anything better than it is.
I think most of us know why Randy Couture wasn't fighting for the UFC due to his assiciation with Affliction. I do not think that the details of that situation say much for the character of the governing entities within the UFC.

Another issue is how many people idolize the worst tempered UFC fighter like Tito. They go around pushing people around trying to act 'dominant' like their heroes. This isn't really the fighters' fault and they are not responsible for their fans behavior, but they are responsible for their own, and it is still a very real problem nonetheless.

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#293788 - 11/02/08 07:05 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: berserkerofdeath]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I think it speaks more about our culture and society today that the UFC and other MMA events play up the violence in their marketing. The problem with that is, it resonates with the more violent of those in our society. Thus thats what turns up in your schools and gyms. As a gym owner, I've seen my share of unsavory characters coming in to improve their capacity for violence. It's not a good thing.

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#293789 - 11/02/08 07:22 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: JKogas]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Excellent point Kogas.

I think that the already violent, somewhat sociopathic spectator/fan finds catharsis in the UFC, just as they do, say, a hockey fight. Same goes for the person who is sociopathically violent who comes to train MMA. I don't think it is the UFC's fault for turning these people violent. I think the marketing still has too much of the blood sport, gladatorial games aspect to it. I'd like it to be portrayed for its good qualities: a sport which takes extreme skill, physical prowess, and strategy to excel at.
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#293790 - 11/09/08 08:29 PM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: JKogas]
berserkerofdeath Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Spokane, WA
I can not disagree with this. It is very sad.
My mothers' ex-boyfriend was incredibly strong. I don't think he knew how strong. He was also an alcoholic (among other things) and he would workout with weights to get even stronger, then get drunk and do some stupid things, then say everyone else was being a hypocrite because he's a Christian so he can do what he wants and God will forgive him.
So I know firsthand that irrationally hostile people will create an outlet.
I just think it is sad for the martial arts that some of our most famous representatives act the way that some of them do.


Quote:

I think it speaks more about our culture and society today that the UFC and other MMA events play up the violence in their marketing. The problem with that is, it resonates with the more violent of those in our society. Thus thats what turns up in your schools and gyms. As a gym owner, I've seen my share of unsavory characters coming in to improve their capacity for violence. It's not a good thing.



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#293791 - 11/12/08 10:14 AM Re: The inadequacies of MMA training. [Re: berserkerofdeath]
Inner_Ear Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 29
There is a lot here that has been considered on this thread as to what would be considered an adequate base for MMA training based on what it is used for so I won't go into too much detail as your scroll wheel is already at your index finger and you can easily look up (I hope). For one the rules of the situations you are getting into will change what path your following for example: "MT and run-of-the mill" MMA fighters (The standard forms of MT, BJJ, Boxing, Yawyan, etc. the "Pride" arts -not THAT kind of pride)" when fighting against a San Soo (Shou, Zhou can't recall spelling ATM) fighters have to undergo training to get used to the different rulings that are allowed in SS matches (eye gouge/ groin strikes/ dirty clinches) as the basis for the MA was for an extreme situation if you read into the history you will see what I mean. This is due to the changes in the situation, and if you want a more 'realistic' type of match, you have to change the rules, often; If you want to simulate fighting injured, prone, or whatever, you change the rules allowing your opponent to attack however, but you cannot do it with said body part, imo. Also the times you engage your attacker in realistic situations are not set, and anyone who's done 36-72-96 hour operational exercises can tell you it's a whole other set of rules that you don't get in a sport environment as its for the sport, not the application in your life. If you want to see what it's like you need an opponent you trust as it can be dangerous and ask them to attack you at random throughout the training session. If you really feel so inclined go camping and do the same thing, switching up the roles (and no you may not use the titles 'pitcher' and 'catcher' for this one :P).

Sadly yes the most often seen and associated image of MMA is the UFC/Pride fights that pit one 200+ # troll against another to watch the blood flow, which when actually researched as we've noted is not the be all and end all of MMA. MMA in of itself is supposed to be what is best suited for your attributes, be it reach, size, strength, speed, coordination etc. If there was one way of fighting, one way of learning, every club/dojo/training center would all be under the same name with the same punch-card coach doing the same techniques, but such is not the case upon a simple glance around the room.

RBDS scams are like gambling books, it's a quick way to earn money to support whatever the writer wants the money for. Reactions are like reflexes, and training ones body and ones mind to react a certain way takes a long time as you are building muscle memory, and a new neurological pathway, bringing a bit of truth to the saying I encountered in Kali training, "To master a technique you must do it properly five thousand times." It's no different for an athlete of any sort, or a musician of any sort either.

As I said earlier, ones MMA training is dependent on what works for them, and what constitutes a well rounded fighter. For me having both an unarmed and armed skills is essentialin being well rounded. Knowing how to handle weapons and people with them in todays world especially if you're in a job that requires you to go into situations like that, military for example. However for someone to say that a person can be faster than a trigger finger is pretty much the Hallmark of the RBSD Charlatan as stated here in this thread.

There are MMAs all over the world, but what goes into the mix is as finite as the person making it.


Edited by Inner_Ear (11/12/08 10:18 AM)
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