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#293647 - 10/16/06 12:07 AM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: Ed_Morris]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Yeah, WKF and WKC/AAU point sparring is a lot better. There are a few fighters who are legit and the rules aren't too bad for training certain aspects of karate. Of course there are many fighters who are only in it to win it and a lot of guys use unsound fighting principles to get the point. If it was officiated better and rules enforced better it wouldn't be half bad.

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#293648 - 10/16/06 03:59 AM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: medulanet]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Yeah, WKF and WKC/AAU point sparring is a lot better. There are a few fighters who are legit and the rules aren't too bad for training certain aspects of karate. Of course there are many fighters who are only in it to win it and a lot of guys use unsound fighting principles to get the point. If it was officiated better and rules enforced better it wouldn't be half bad.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07LP8lHVe5c

Just thought I would post this for any female karate ka reading the thread Hi Im Andy
Some throws near the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIZn3m9J-Us&mode=related&search=






Edited by ANDY44 (10/16/06 04:05 AM)

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#293649 - 10/16/06 06:17 AM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
just from my expierience, I don't recall many goju people being at semi contact points events when I was younger.

I did work out with goju people alot in my first 10 years and when sparring was called - you knew it was going to be hard going. I would nearly always 'score' with a good shot and then the goju peoople would tear me up on the inside............

We wore gum shields and boxes only and no points were called, contact was hard but not excessive to cause significant injury and targets were sensible.

grappling allowed, encouraged! and off you went...........ouch.

You always had a 'buddy' to seperate the 2 fighters if it got a little out of hand, but generally people worked within reason and no knee stomping or eye gouging happened.

It just wasn't that big a deal who one or not, everyone got hit - just training.

Good format to work to.

Goju was obviously a superior training method at the time, for 'scrapping' (conditioning and range worked being the main advantages IMO) unless that first blow was a finisher/disabler (which sometimes it would have been) I nearly always got owned.
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#293650 - 10/16/06 06:43 AM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: shoshinkan]
dandangojuman Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1
hey just thought i'd throw my thoughts in. i train okinawan goju ryu and whilst we do a little tournament stuff coming up to the gasshuku training is devoted to conditioning, bunkai and generally knocking lumps off each other. we're lucky most sparring is deliberately toe to toe, with a little westernboxing thrown in for variety. cheers

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#293651 - 10/16/06 06:59 AM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: shoshinkan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
that was the other rule I forgot about: resetting after each scored point. this leads to using tactics that score without reprecussions. as long as you score first, you can leave yourself open.

another aspect that doesn't translate well is the strategy of 'clean blocking/evasion'. thats in order to not confuse the judges into awarding a score on you.

but some of the parry we practice have the concept of 'receiving'...it's sort of a partial parry to deflect most of the force, but absorb the negligible residual in order to be in a good place for near-simultaneous counter.

...but yet this isn't seen in point-sparring since it's only the first hit which scores.

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#293652 - 10/21/06 02:07 PM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: Ed_Morris]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Quote:

that was the other rule I forgot about: resetting after each scored point. this leads to using tactics that score without reprecussions. as long as you score first, you can leave yourself open.




This is not exactly true in WKF point fighting. Zanshin must be maintained after scoring until referee stops the match. If a contestant scores and immediatly drops his guard, score is not recognised and he can be penelised for it. However when a score is recognised, the referee will halt the match.

Quote:


another aspect that doesn't translate well is the strategy of 'clean blocking/evasion'. thats in order to not confuse the judges into awarding a score on you.




In WKF point fighting there are no scores for blocking, only uchi, zuki or geri can score. When a technique is blocked or partley blocked/deflecting, the score is not recognised.



Quote:


but some of the parry we practice have the concept of 'receiving'...it's sort of a partial parry to deflect most of the force, but absorb the negligible residual in order to be in a good place for near-simultaneous counter.

...but yet this isn't seen in point-sparring since it's only the first hit which scores.



When a technique is blocked or partley blocked/deflecting, the score is not recognised.

First hit first score is not correct in WKF point fighting.
The technique has to fullfill some basic criteria's like correct distance, correct technique, adequate power, zanshin, on the approved scoring area's of the body.

For instance, trying to score when the opponent is moving backwards will never lead to a point even if you hit first because the power is neglectable. The opponent could then stand still and score on the incoming attacker.


Point fighting is fighting test and anything that works within the boundaries of the rules should be used wether it's goju or shorin or shotokan .... There are principles known in goju that are used in point fighting like moving out of the line of attack/deflecting and than takedown and score like e.g. in sepai. However straight attack techniques like from jihon are also good for scoring. So a good, allround pointfighter cannot be pinned down to one style imo. He'll use what works for him to score and this is best learned from training sessions directed to point fighting. Not technical style training.

Most techniques/tactics used in point fighting can be tracked back to some interpretation of a piece in a goju kata. But not for the kicks. Goju only knows front kick and side kick never above the waist.

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#293653 - 10/21/06 04:53 PM Re: Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
The goju sparring i've always done consists of every range(clinch,throws,etc) and no points or stopping after contact. It's like going hard while trying to take care of eachother,sort of. Almost always ended with one or both on the ground and you knew for sure who had won.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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