FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 29 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 14
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 4
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
Today at 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 08:53 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
07/24/14 11:35 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432455 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#293469 - 10/25/06 01:14 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: eyrie]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Eyrie,

I am curious to know what kind of evidence would you accept as demonstrating aikido's limited effectiveness?

Top
#293470 - 10/25/06 07:24 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: fileboy2002]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
First off, discussion threads exist for a reason, so others may follow the flow of the discussion. Posting in the right thread would be the right and logical thing to do.

See my reply here:
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...80#Post15894453

Top
#293471 - 10/26/06 06:35 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: eyrie]
Eveal Offline
the freshmaker

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 303
This got me thinking "you grab my wrist and I break your nose" just think about what this means to you.

First off, trying to fully commit yourself for a small joint is very hazardous. Wristlocks take both hands to apply enough pressure to gain control of the person through that source of pain. Look at how active a MMA practitioner is they are constantly moving, constantly working and never committing unless itís to knock you out or take you down and even then they know what position to be in so you canít react fast enough.

Aikido is an old traditional martial arts that still have some of the same tendencies that a lot of traditional arts do. They are too comfortable at what they do they see no need for change and also itís too hard to change something that has been done for generation on in. They don't work on full out spontaneous aggression instead most attacks delivered are fully or overly committed by their attackers so the technique are for sure going to work.

Now if you have been in matches (karate, boxing, MT, MMA, even TKD) you let me know if you can ever can ever catch a punch or a kick that is thrown at you or ever direct it with a full body movement for that matter.

Lastly, we have said it from time and time again its not the style that wins your fights its how you train to win your fights.
_________________________
Be "Water" my friend!

Top
#293472 - 10/26/06 01:28 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: Eveal]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Quote:

we have said it from time and time again its not the style that wins your fights its how you train to win your fights.




And i have pointed out that the dichotomy between "style" and "training" is a false one. In reality, "style" and "training" are intimately linked. Muay Thai is Muay Thai largely because how how Muay Thai fighters train. If MT fighters trained differently, MT itself would be a very different style. The same hold true for aikido, TKD, and any other style out there.

Top
#293473 - 10/26/06 08:55 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: fileboy2002]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Quote:

we have said it from time and time again its not the style that wins your fights its how you train to win your fights.




And i have pointed out that the dichotomy between "style" and "training" is a false one. In reality, "style" and "training" are intimately linked. Muay Thai is Muay Thai largely because how how Muay Thai fighters train. If MT fighters trained differently, MT itself would be a very different style. The same hold true for aikido, TKD, and any other style out there.




Unfortunately, most of the people with the right attitudes about contact martial arts don't join Aikido, hence the generalisation about the art. Of course, if you go to a good school with good instructors and good students, you'll find people who can fight very effectively. However, like TKD (I hate to admit), this quality is often diluted in our arts.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#293474 - 10/26/06 10:17 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: fileboy2002]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

And i have pointed out that the dichotomy between "style" and "training" is a false one. In reality, "style" and "training" are intimately linked. Muay Thai is Muay Thai largely because how how Muay Thai fighters train. If MT fighters trained differently, MT itself would be a very different style. The same hold true for aikido, TKD, and any other style out there.




It's not entirely true, but I get the point you are trying to put across - namely that there is a tendency to fight how you train, which is quite valid. But to extend the argument to a style and equating a style to a method of training is tenuous, although I will concede that they are intimately link.

Just so we are clear....

Top
#293475 - 10/26/06 10:22 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: Leo_E_49]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:


Unfortunately, most of the people with the right attitudes about contact martial arts don't join Aikido, hence the generalisation about the art. Of course, if you go to a good school with good instructors and good students, you'll find people who can fight very effectively. However, like TKD (I hate to admit), this quality is often diluted in our arts.




I think we need to be careful with the sweeping generalizations. Aikido is very much a contact-based martial art - as is all martial arts. The distinction is one of DEGREE of contact and LOCUS of contact.

Top
#293476 - 10/27/06 06:41 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: eyrie]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Exactly, there is a great deal of contact in Aikido, however, a good number of Aikido practitioners do not practice with the contact levels found in many other MA, such as Muay Thai or MMA gyms. This isn't because Aikido can not be trained in that fashion, but because it has the image of being a softer style and that image doesn't appeal to many of the people who would want to study an art and fight with that level of contact. It's not the art but the artist, and the image of Aikido often dissuades good MAists from training in its style.

Of course, the image bears little resemblance to the actual art.

P.S. There are some schools where students never experience contact at all, so some MA training can be considered non-contact.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (10/27/06 06:42 AM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#293477 - 10/27/06 07:57 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: Leo_E_49]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Leo_E_49 wrote

Quote:

Exactly, there is a great deal of contact in Aikido, however, a good number of Aikido practitioners do not practice with the contact levels found in many other MA, such as Muay Thai or MMA gyms. This isn't because Aikido can not be trained in that fashion, but because it has the image of being a softer style and that image doesn't appeal to many of the people who would want to study an art and fight with that level of contact. It's not the art but the artist, and the image of Aikido often dissuades good MAists from training in its style.





Those are pretty valid points except for the very first one Ė I have NEVER seen aikido practiced (either in person or on video) with any reasonable amount of contact. That doesnít meant that people donít, just that I personally havenít seen it. I donít know a lot of folks who have so Iím assuming that sort of practice is rare, or ďvery secretiveĒ Ė like on the level of national security classified information is secret.


Quote:


Of course, the image bears little resemblance to the actual art.

P.S. There are some schools where students never experience contact at all, so some MA training can be considered non-contact.






Arts can change completely when a partner is allowed to bust you in your mouth. I would LIKE to see more ďfull contact aikidoĒ. Perhaps have students wear head-gear and a mouthpiece, allowing open hand shots or, closed fist shots with smaller MMA fight gloves. You could dial the power up and down depending on experience levels of the practitioners.

Do you know what would happen if folks did that?? Aikido would not continue to exist as we know it.

Check out these videos and see if there is EVER any realistic contact or for that matter, any realistic training:

http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/video.htm


Iíve been looking through them and havenít found anything yet. It looks like all the aikido that I have ever seen both in person and on video from around the WORLD. Perhaps it is just another ďdemonstrationĒ series, which is about the only thing that I ever really find. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to provide some links to video showing more contact and actual resistance.

Thanks

-John

Top
#293478 - 10/27/06 10:42 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Tomiki Aikido (video links on the page) -

http://www10.ocn.ne.jp/~siba/index11.htm
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga