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#293449 - 10/16/06 01:37 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: TaekwondoWned]
xuzen_628 Offline
Unknown MA champion

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

I'm sorry to break the news to all but troll-kwon-do is one of the lowest ranking past-times in terms of usefulness.




There, fixed your typo. No thanks necessary but you are still most welcomed.

Xwf
_________________________
Knowing one technique that will surely work is better than knowing hundred that will probably work.

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#293450 - 10/16/06 01:50 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: xuzen_628]
TaekwondoWned Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 8
Quote:

Quote:

I'm sorry to break the news to all but troll-kwon-do is one of the lowest ranking past-times in terms of usefulness.




There, fixed your typo. No thanks necessary but you are still most welcomed.

Xwf




Don't be sour just because aikido wouldn't work against the mentally sound.

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#293451 - 10/16/06 03:04 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: TaekwondoWned]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Oh dear... it gets better. Against the mentally sound...

If you have a point, argue it cogently. Why is aikido not effective? Where is the citation that states that aikido is the lowest ranking MA in terms of effectiveness? Who conducted that study? What were the parameters of that study? Why would it not work against the mentally sound?

And lastly, why do the mentally unsound keep posting here?

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#293452 - 10/16/06 03:18 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: eyrie]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:


And lastly, why do the mentally unsound keep posting here?






As for the small joint argument. I tend to err un the side of John on this, small joints are fiddly to manipulate, I know I find it one of the hardest things to do, granted I don't have extensive grappling experience. Arm bars and chokes are so much easier to apply since they involve gross motor movements. When the adrenaline starts pumping, it is well known that it is more difficult to do fine motor movements, so there may be a question over small jjoint locks there.

On the other hand, studies in competitive sport show that when an athlete has trained sport specifically to use a skill, those who are "highly trained" seem to perform the sport skill just as well as they would in practice. The question is to what degree good sparring can mimic the conditions of an MMA match, which would make both combatants I would think very nervous and "up for it"(in sports terms "high arousal").

As I say, I err on the side of Kogas, but I'm sure that it's possible to use small joint manipulation effectively.

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#293453 - 10/16/06 09:30 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: Supremor]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Aikido isn't all small joint manipulations.

However, the heavy focus on small joint manipulations in Aikido serves a totally different purpose - other than small joint manipulations.

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#293454 - 10/17/06 08:13 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: TeK9]
Frogleg Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 2
Aikido is not meant for competitions of sport as it is a budo art. Designed for life and death situations not for competitions of bruises.
As far as it being effective, just look at the the police and military around the world that use it every day to stay alive and subdue attackers that arent out to "win" but to kill you.
Also I will not reply to the trolls that I have seen already, but if you have a serious question I would be more than happy to do the best I can helping you out please send e-mail as I dont scan forums much as evidenced by my # of posts... ...

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#293455 - 10/17/06 09:17 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: eyrie]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Aikido isn't all small joint manipulations.

However, the heavy focus on small joint manipulations in Aikido serves a totally different purpose - other than small joint manipulations.






Just curious; do you consider the wrist a small joint?


-John

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#293456 - 10/17/06 11:43 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: JKogas]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Depends on how big the person's wrist is... doesn't it?

I guess I would consider the wrist as a small joint - on the proviso that I can get my hands around the wrist. On a much bigger person, it is nearly impossible for the smaller person to grasp the wrist/hand, so it may be necessary to move down to smaller phalangeal joints to obtain the necessary leverage.

FWIW.

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#293457 - 10/18/06 02:49 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: TeK9]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I think the person most qualified to respond to this is probably Jason DeLucia. I'm not sure how much "aikido" he does or uses in MMA, or what his "Combat Aikido" entails and how far it diverges from the "mainstream" flavor. But I am under the impression that he has successfully utilized aiki principles within an MMA context.

And that really is the crux of the matter. I don't think it is so much the "technique", but rather the ability to successful utilize and apply the technical principles.

Besides, many arts share many techniques in common. There are only so many ways to twist, bend, fold, lock, pin, throw, strike. So you can't say that "such and such" a technique is an aikido or jujitsu or whatever technique.

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#293458 - 10/18/06 08:18 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Just curious; do you consider the wrist a small joint?


-John




Just to play devil's advocate here for a second. A relevant question would be, do MMA guys consider the ankle to be a small joint? If you allow ankle locks, and the wrist is analogous to the ankle, shouldn't wrist locks be allowed?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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