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#293459 - 10/18/06 05:03 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: eyrie]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I am thinking of getting Delucias Combat Aikido series. Im not quite sure yet if it's worth it. He has taken some serious beat downs.
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#293460 - 10/18/06 05:10 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: TeK9]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Matt,

Good point.

I myself prefer finger locks before wrist locks, and in actuality for me it is easier to apply an arm bar on a person than a wrist lock. HOwever, having said that, an arm bar as jkogas said is easier because it's considered a big joint/target. In MMA they do not allow the small open hand strike to vital targets that would cause distractions and permit easy access to wrist and finger locks. No attacks to the throat, eye gauges, groin shots, pinching ect. The stuff that I consider real and simple self defense.

For me once I have finger or wrist lock it is very easy for me to transition into an arm bar or shoulder lock and tons of other locks and holds.
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#293461 - 10/18/06 05:35 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: TeK9]
MattJ Offline
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My experience is that finger locks are somewhat easy to get, but equally easy to get out of. Wrist locks are more reliable, both when they are done on me and when I use them.

And I am not suggesting that arm bars, etc be ignored in favor of wrist locks. I just find it contradictory that many MMA folks (seem to) have something against wrist locks, but ankle locks are OK.
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#293462 - 10/18/06 06:04 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
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Matt-

Here is the deal with the wrist and ankle locks argument. The wrist locks (and throws) that guys have a problem with (myself included) are the one's from a STANDING position - ala, "aikido". You don't execute ankle locks when both people are standing and trading shots (either).

However on the ground, I'll go for wrist locks as well as ankle locks. In fact, I don't care WHAT I lock when on the ground (neck cranks, face locks, wrist locks, elbow locks, shoulder locks, twister spine locks, knee bars, achiles locks, heel hooks, toe holds -- it doesn't matter). The difference there is that I have more control over my opponent (when he is on the ground) as opposed to when he's standing and able to move around.

As much as I have studied joint locks and submission, in NO WAY am I a fan of trying to apply joint locks from a standing/free movement position, and I have seen them demonstrated in variety of different martial arts styles. I am just not sold on that idea in the least.



-John

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#293463 - 10/18/06 06:19 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
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Understood. I was referring to wrist locks on the ground. I have had very little luck with them in stand-up.
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#293464 - 10/18/06 06:39 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
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In my opinion, aikido isn't defined as much by it's "ground work" as it is by its standing approach.




-John

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#293465 - 10/18/06 07:41 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: JKogas]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I do believe that locks where you are standing and they are on the ground can work though. That way they can't manouvre out of your lock because they're on the ground. Doesn't make much difference to the locks imho.
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#293466 - 10/18/06 08:24 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: Leo_E_49]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

I do believe that locks where you are standing and they are on the ground can work though. That way they can't manouvre out of your lock because they're on the ground.






How difficult would that be though? You're standing and your opponent is on the ground?? imagine that and see if that makes sense. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Anyone with a picture of this?



-John

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#293467 - 10/19/06 08:11 AM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: JKogas]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Perhaps Leo is referring to a follow-up to something, like a judo throw, like a hip throw, where you maintain control of the person as you throw them, then apply the joint manipulation after they land. That is IMO difficult to do, because most people will squirm somewhat when they hit the ground, freeing themselves of your grip.

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#293468 - 10/19/06 02:52 PM Re: Aikido in MMA [Re: Supremor]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I was referring to locks done after throws (assuming you can do a Judo throw on your opponent). There are a number of locks which can be setup while your opponent is in the air which can be applied when they land. If you don't manage to get the lock on, sure they can escape but once the lock is on, it's significantly more difficult.

This one here seems ok to me as an example:
http://www.mahunter.com/ujj/techniques/traditional/yellow/hip_throw_shoulder/index.html

Doubt they could be done effectively against someone not wearing long sleeves, but in this country that's not a problem.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (10/19/06 02:53 PM)
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