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#292700 - 12/11/06 12:57 PM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Chen Zen]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
after 15+ pages, hows your myth doing? did you destroy it yet?

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#292701 - 12/11/06 08:32 PM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Ed_Morris]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Thoroughly eviscerated.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#292702 - 12/11/06 10:05 PM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Chen Zen]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3406
Loc: Salem, OR
What was the myth anyway?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#292703 - 12/12/06 12:10 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Stormdragon]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
That kata will make you proficient in self defense.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#292704 - 12/12/06 02:23 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Chen Zen]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
all your base are belong to chen
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#292705 - 12/12/06 07:52 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Chen Zen]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Recently Ive been involved in several kata discussions, mainly involving Karateka. Trying not to steal threads I invited a few of them to the JKD forum to defend there stance on the issue. Since they have failed to do so then I will bring the conversation to them myself.

My first jab at it is that I dont think that kata are useful for anything other repetition of technique in which case there are far more valuable ways to do this. Also I believe that the mystery should be left out of it. There is too much interpretation for the student. Self defense should be taught in a more direct manner so that the benifits of such training can be yeilded quickly by the student.

Its just a jab. Ive got more. I want to remind everyone before the topic takes off, dont get personal. Lets have a intelligent discussion on the issue.




Recently I trained with a JKDist we stole and recruited into our style, I loved his close-in stuff.

But a lot of it was like what Mc Carthy teaches and I myself have found in kata.

Different transmission methods, that's all. Kata works for me. I couldn't get checking thigh kicks right until I practiced Ashihara's "Suzuki Kihon" for a while - it even showed me some self defence stuff I am now well trained in now, but didn't practice at all before. There is stuff I've learnt from kata I've never had to practice that often, even kata I haven't done many times and I can't apply the technique on the spot without thinking.

Two man drills used by CMA, MMA and TMA are so close to kata that it casts doubt on firm opposition to kata. All you need is realism in the drills and they are gold. Practice the most important concepts for repetition to learn a technique or self defence sequence or as a repository of techniques and you've got a kata there fella.

More importantly: Just shut up and train.
_________________________
It takes a village to stone somebody to death.

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#292706 - 12/12/06 08:57 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: crablord]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
What Crab?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#292707 - 12/12/06 10:26 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Chen Zen]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
lol its an internet saying. Once you win something you say " all your base are belong to us". Wikipedia it
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#292708 - 12/12/06 10:28 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: Mark Hill]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5767
Loc: USA

Ya know, we have 15 plus pages of really good discussion here---most of it does not fit neatly into the box of someone "winning" or "loseing."

Hope folks don't see it that way.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#292709 - 12/12/06 11:49 AM Re: Chen Destroys the kata myth [Re: cxt]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3406
Loc: Salem, OR
Kata combined with 'live' training and effective applications will indeed make you proficient in SD. The kata gives you the skills and techniques and the 'alive' training or 'live' training gives oyu the ability to apply them effectively.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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