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#291955 - 10/09/06 07:54 AM How useful is striking?
ThomsonsPier Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 475
Loc: Reading, UK
This thought was prompted by a comment in the 'defence against rape' thread below.

Assuming that you are in a situation where you need to defend yourself, how useful are striking attacks as opposed to throws or locks of the type used to maneuver your attacker(s) into a position which opens an escape route? Which is the better (please fell free to provide your own definitions of 'better') set of techniques to apply? Most people who don't practise striking probably won't be able to generate enough power to have a great effect, but locks and throws often require a greater level of confidence to apply (generalisations abound).

My question is mainly focused on the viewpoint of those who do not wish to study martial arts or learn a 'complete' fighting system, for in those circumstances the attackee will presumably have favoured techniques of their own.
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#291956 - 10/09/06 08:08 AM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: ThomsonsPier]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
"...how useful are striking attacks as opposed to throws or locks of the type used to maneuver your attacker(s) into a position which opens an escape route? Which is... better... "

I suppose the answer would be the one you are better at.

But this is sort of like asking which is better... meat or vegetables or fruit. You can't really stay healthy on a strict diet of just one. They work together.

In the same way, it is very difficult to simply throw someone cold, or put a lock on them, without a distracting strike of some kind. This is especially true for a smaller, weaker person. It is absolutely true without a huge amount of skill.


Edited by Joss (10/09/06 01:59 PM)

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#291957 - 10/09/06 10:09 AM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: ThomsonsPier]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Both striking and grappling are equally important to defending yourself. If you lack one, you can be completely overwhelmed by your opponent. This usually turns out to be strikers being overwhelmed by grapplers but that's because most grapplers have some grasp of striking techniques, whereas most strikers have no grappling knowledge what so ever.

The problem with learning only striking is that when you are on the ground, you can not generate momentum for your strikes to take effect. Do not assume you won't go to the ground, it's a possibility which happens more often than people would believe. Also, striking has limited value in extreme close range. Elbow strikes and knee strikes still have value in the clinch but throws and grappling are at their prime at this range.

The problem with grappling is that it ties you up when you use it. If you are in a self defense situation, striking should be your first line of defense because it keeps you mobile and out of range of potential weapons. If the need arises, grappling knowledge should be applied when closer ranges are encountered. By no means should you take things to the ground in self defense, unless circumstances dictate that there is no other option.

I stand by my viewpoint because I train both striking and grappling. Place a pure striker or a pure grappler of similar skill level against me and I'll have the advantage because I can fight anywhere and under almost any normal conditions.

The reason why I suggested a grappling martial art to Aurora is to help her overcome her own personal fears. I would normally have suggested a striking art for self defense as a base to learn from but in her case, she specifically brought up how she was scared of being on the ground. By taking away the fear of groundfighting, she is empowered to defend herself in any situation and does not have to live in fear of being helpless. Not all self defense is about fighting, sometimes it's about courage, the desire to survive and the "commonsense" to avoid danger.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (10/09/06 10:13 AM)
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#291958 - 10/09/06 10:01 PM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I agree with most of that especially the part at the end about courage and what not.

The one thing that struck me as inaccurate is that you cannot generate power from the ground in striking. Since you are not on your feet then you will not be able to generate as much speed, but you can still get adequate torque. Also there are other options such as hammerfists and elbows. And if you are on top in grappling then of course you can do good damage striking.
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#291959 - 10/09/06 10:02 PM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Hash Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 28
Striking is the core of any self-defense system, and the only fast, reliable way of ending a fight. I've never gone to the ground in a real fight. Not that it doesn't happen, but in every fight I've been in, the winner was the one who hit the other guy in the head first. Groundfighting is also suicide against multiple attackers. I've seen people booted in the head, it's not pretty. Always try to stay on your feet. And don't think that many wrestling matches happen out there on the street, if it does go to the ground it's all about fists, knees and elbows. If you learn to strike properly, you can still knock somebody out from the ground.

If your interested in self-defense, learn how to hit, where to hit, and then train to hit first. (and keep hitting)

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#291960 - 10/10/06 12:01 AM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: Hash]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
If oyu cant strike or deal with srtriking, you will be in for trouble, but if oyu dont know how to grapple to some degree at least, you wil lbe i nfor otruble. Learn both, but emphasize strikes as they end fights quicker.
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#291961 - 10/10/06 07:07 AM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: Chen Zen]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

And if you are on top in grappling then of course you can do good damage striking.




Forgive my generalisation. From the top position, you can strike effectively. Hence, GnP.

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#291962 - 10/10/06 10:39 AM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: Leo_E_49]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
lol. No problem. I forget things all the time.
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Lao Tzu

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#291963 - 10/10/06 02:40 PM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: ThomsonsPier]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
28+ years in the Arts I see them compilmenting each other rather then a comparison. You have to get from point "A" to point "B" in a fight they are not going to let you.

So it comes back to the appropiate tool at the appropiate range. I recommend striking as you enter even if grappling is your strong suit in contrast I recommend grappling once in too close to strike effectively.

From my limited experince if you strike well you have less resistance to your grappling, sweeps, throws or locks. Combining them really enhance this effect, like forearm shuto like move (to the neck, face, collar bone as you osoto-gari or slapping the grion before you grab and twist them, while you grab his throat seems to lift him for some reason????

Anyway never plan on 1 without the other. I will add that, of the two I've dropped people without noother neccesary followup striking then Grappling or Groundfighting. Unless you are just totally ruthless, U Groundfight if he is still a threat. RIGHT???

My 2 cent.


Edited by Neko456 (10/10/06 02:45 PM)

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#291964 - 10/11/06 07:21 AM Re: How useful is striking? [Re: Neko456]
ThomsonsPier Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 475
Loc: Reading, UK
Thanks for thine replies, fellow humans.

I understand that all ranges and techniques are important when considering self defense, but I'm trying to think of the question in terms of a non-martial artist's view. I imagine most people are unwilling to spend sufficient time on striking to make it a truly useful tool (I can't say how much time that is).

I'm not putting myself across very well here. My own view is very much in line with the opinions put forward here, which is to say use whatever you have in your arsenal to achieve whatever goal you have in mind (much as in life). But what about those with a minimal arsenal? With what would you recommend they fill it?
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