now I heard that ju jitsu is the best martial arts anyone can learn, "why?" because it enables you to grapple i dont mean to be insulting to another martial arts but i mean no disrespect but "karate" its open hand and it may not be too affective when it comes to grappling and pin downs. my best advice for you all about street defense is i recommend you do judo or ju jitsu for street defense because I was told once that if you do karate it will not make you successfull in life take my advice, because i did karate and i have learned from my mistakes and really? they didnt teach me "jack" in street defense its hands up and around by a sweeping block not hands at the side and one hand up you need that protection two hands up and fighting positions.

While I appreciate your feelings for Judo and Ju Jitsu, I really don't think you are being fair to Karate. I assume that is because of your limited exposure to the many systems of Karate that many people have found very useful for self defense.

Do yourself and the forum a favor. Go out and learn some more about Karate systems and don't make such sweeping generalizations.

I have left most of the Karate training I did behind, but I've still taken some usefl things away from it. Something would have to really stink for it to have no value of any kind.

Yeah, I hate it when people make broad generalizations about any art or style. Just because one person'e experience with the style is bad doesn't mean it would be the same for everyone unless this person is under the impression that he is the ultimate authority on Karate and his experience is paramount.

A lot of people have bad experiences with Karate, a lot more than those who have good experiences. Good karate is the exception, and if you want to make use of most of the training you're limited to a few branches like Kyokushin and Enshin.

like I said ok I didnt mean any disrespect alright.and sorry if i have offended any of you, karate means open hand fighting it does not mean that I am being an A**H**. but I was just trying to help I am not trying to say to people not to do karate they can do whatever they want I have my own opinions thank you.

Important thing when posting is to make sure you do so in a clear way, so that you make yourself understood. Good that you clarified somewhat.

I understand what you are saying, but as has been stated, generalizations should be avoided. Your experiences are always worth sharing though.

Bear in mind too that there are Ryu's of Karate that, although karate, comprise quite heavily of Ju Jutsu e.g. Wado Ryu. Other Ryu's of karate that have incorporated a lot of Ju Jutsu in to their style, such as Seidokan incorporating a lot of trad Ju Jutsu techiques and grapple defenses in to their style.

Just some food for thought...

Could I have everyone's attention, please? This just in: Apparently, it's actually not a crime to read your posts before posting them after all! I'm not trying to be a jerk, but seriously, a little punctuation might help you sound slightly less ignorant. I mean, there's only so much good punctuation can do, but...im saying when you talk and write and post like this no one nos what ur saying man get the idea obviously im overemphasizing for dramatic emphasis but when you just keep going on like this and your sentences jump around to your sides and people do this all the time, well, the rest of us simply cannot understand what you're trying to say. Better luck next time, champ.

ok dragon, you can take a breath now. lol

he musta had some seriously bad karate instruction, if any, all i saw was "what i've been told"
there is plenty of "jujutsu" in karate, it is in kata, a sub art called tuite, or torite. much like chin na is a sub art of alot of chinese systems, and that is the part of the art where joint locks, and takedowns and such are taught.
i also don't agree you have to study enshin or kyokushin to get good karate.
i like jujutsu allot, but from a certain perspective, i'd say in some ways karate is more complete than jujutsu, as allot of jujutsu systems had very little striking. however anything and everything is in karate if you know how to look for it.
just the opinion of someone who really doesn't know too much about karate other than what he's read (me)

FlyingDragon just owned himself; it's best not to criticise the punctuation of others when you're lacking in that department yourself.

one of the best martial arts i have ever learned is probley ju jitsu but still everything has a weakness.and the only ways to enhance that weakness and make it less affective is to train hard and try out many many different styles of martial arts,...and mix them up because in the street you are going up against grapplers or throwers or even worse a resseler and you need to focus on that grappling techniques if you just do one style of martial art it may not be affective, its all about the focus.now I am doing aikido tonight ok, and as I go there i am going to learn about sword techniques and arm techniques but even one style of martial arts is affective very affective against the worst apponents. I dont use that word enemy I use the word apponent because I have rspect for the enemy always and I have understanding of others.

and still. it does not matter how good you are at any martial art, you will never ever be perfect and that is the ultimate weakness of all we can just aim to be the very best and there is always some teachers in some of the most best schools in town, and even they dont teach you how to get out of locks and grapples. so just take note of what I am saying because I know what I am talking about but not 100% ok?.

*sound of FD's sarcasm flying over migos' head*

lol, style better then style for practicality.

Haven't we finially established that this crap should be taken off the boards. I know you have a right to your opnion my man, but realy one more bad mouth to karate and efficicany and im gonna take my student loan and start giving out painfull pratcial seminars concerning just how exactly it completly depends on the person over the art!

you had a bad karate expirence, ok, you had 25 years of bad karate ok, you have a right to your opnion ok, but stop and think, please i know it hurts, what kind of educated discussion or informed debate can you start by trash talking one completly general wing of the martial arts, the best your ever gonna get is the line of [censored] off karate ka ready to tell you what for!!

so i guess i'll replay along the same wavelength, hope this one's completly comprehendable..your mother wares army boots and your senesi is stealing your money!!

where are you from? cause if the best sensei in town doesn't teach how to get out of holds, or grapples...go somewhere else.
in the end, i guess we all need to remember to try not to bash other arts. cause someone else loves that art, and its up to them. if you dont like karate, stick with jujutsu...or try kung fu..or silat...or something.

Jiujitsu is a " GREAT " martial art and can be very effective on the street! But, so are others, both striking and grappling. Ideally, it's best to train in both. The street is soooooo unpredictable. Many times, especially with multiple opponents, if you cannot escape, it would be more beneficial to stand up and strike. Stay out of reach until you can escape or help arrives. Going to the ground, or tying up in a clinch could be very bad w/multiple assailants!

Of course there are times a grappling art would be more useful. A restraining situation with 1 attacker is an example. Trying to remove an attacker from a victim is another. Plus many more.

The thing to remember is each art has strengths against certain "street situations". Unfortunately, there are multitudes of "situations"! Weapons, single attackers, single drunk/high/etc.attackers, multiple attackers, ambushes w/single, multiple sober/drunk/high attackers w/weapons ..........so on and so forth!

There is no "best" art for street confrontations. It's best to prepare for "all" confrontations in the case escape is impossible.

I thought style vs style type arguements were way way outdated and old fashioned or is that just me? I mean I can imagine competitions where the point is to compare schools/styles for fun. However, the old throwing down the gauntlet of "my style is better than yours" is, in my opinion just silly now. The impression I read from these boards is that there is no crap art, but there are crap schools, trainers (and students) in every art. As there are excellent ones too. Anway my bad, I made a pointless post to a pointless sort of a debate :-).

ok I made the worse mistake of my life going to aikido this guy charges you like ma wounded bull and secondly its just not affective enough to get out of a grappling move ju jitsu is one of the best martial arts i have ever learned and my hanshi is the best teacher i have ever had in my intire life. I am not leaving ju jitsu I am with it forever and 4 life.

You guys aren't listening to the_jonn. Let me clarify:

He knows that Karate is useless because somebody told him once.

Also, he discovered that Aikido is not effective in getting out of grapples after only one night of training!

Folks, there's a LOT we can learn from the_jonn.

You might want to try out a "Kajukenbo" or "Hapkido" school (provided there are any in your area). Those arts incorporate grappling and striking. It's best to keep an open mind and see what other arts have to offer. Try not to dismiss anything based on heresay.

aikdio and hapkido is good but you are going to be fighting on the ground all the time because if someone knocks you over you can learn to fight on the ground affectively in aikido they dont teach you that. I need to stick with what I am doing. and by the way I am going to japan and ireland and england soon and germany so I have enough time to go over my langauges. I have alot to learn from you guys as well so I hope to understand what you say to me further on.

Well, best of luck with whatever you choose to do.

ok I am back I think karate could be a bit like boxing it ables you to win over the most toughest apponent i admire it but I do not insult it.

I remember the_john... he had interesting opinions on other peoples styles

Luckily for him, he wasn't around during tax season.

well mate take my word for it you would be better off doing a ground fighting grappling training to be able to win ina fight and you need to keep all hands up not fists up because that is how you get your head smacked in trust me. karate dont teach you that only ju jitsu.

and oh yes its your choice if you want to be successful my advice is not to do karate but if you want to be successfull in martial arts you need to learn other kinds of martial arts karate is common for only dumb people who dont know how to advance there martial arts training and I know you are going to take offense I am not an idiot i am telling you the truth and if you dont beleive it go ahead to karate because lots of people do NOT reccomend it beleive me.

Your ignorance is outstanding. Lots of people think they should be told what to do by one person in parlament. Why do you even bother saying this s**t to people do you think theyre going to listen to you and every other website saying "forget karate, kung fu, muay thai, this is the real thing. We know how to train you to kill with one strike!!!!!" go to some other forum and preach your crap. You want a political battle? go join your local government office and think ur making a difference to how people act!

The_john. Is your arguement suppose to be that karate is horrible compared to all other MA's because you tried it for 3 days, and didn't become Super Saiyan Goku?

Sorry bud but I don't think MA's are going to be for you if this is your opinion.

My perspective on this age old style of "kung-fu vs karate vs whatever vs japanease vs americans vs rice eaters vs ninja" debate.

What is a martial art? Why do you practice it? Most probably you know very little about the different martial arts, what they offer and hence you can not make an intelligent decision about which to train.

Is the martial art defined solidly or is it dependent on who your instructor is? Is it dependent on yourself and what you make of it? Can you learn martial arts from reading a book? Can you practice it all by yourself?

Is it about defending yourself in the street? Is it about using your mind and body together?

You talk about karate. When you go to a karate class you might learn what the instructor tells you to practice. You might learn what you choose to practice. There might be katas to be learned and performed.

In a brazilian jiu-jitsu class there will be a very different set of techniques. Most probably you will spar alot. Other people will spar against you.

What if you talk with some of the people in your karate class if they want to spar some? Perhaps standing and on the ground.

What if you talk with some people in your jiu-jitsu class and ask if they want to spar with gloves and punches too?

You have endless possibilities to train. A good relationship with a good instructor will help, but where do you want to go?

Personally, I need sparring. It develops all the physical and mental attributes necessary for the specific kind of fighting. If you spar in karate you will perform better in a karate type of fight, because that is what you trained against.

Imagine yourself two years from now, having trained brazilian jiu-jitsu, what will you do if you are attacked and need to defend yourself? Your sense of balance, your strength, your awareness of body mechanics, your reflexes, all improved. Of course you will have a better chance than two years ago.

What if you chose karate? If the training was equally oriented in sparring, modern working techniques and physically tough, then I would say you have also vastly improved chances.

But what if the specific school you choose is not modern, does not incorporate sparring, has a bad instructor, does not allow mixed fighting, does not allow you to try new ideas, does not focus on conditioning, has not got a diversity of sparring partners, and a whole plethora of attributes.

Do you still think it has got to do with style? You have to realize what each style offers. What each instructor offers. What each school offers.

What will you yourself contribute to your training?

well, this has been quite fun. but like ol "Tater Salad" Ron White says:
"You can't fix stupid."

I hope that at least you're good looking, Mr.the jonn.

I have got to visit these boards more often.

Have been watching this forum for ages, but it was this thread that finally inspired me to sign up.

What a boring place the world would be without characters like The_John

LMAO....

I wasn't going to comment and be better but I can't help it. You are a M O R O N! And that is being nice. I know Karate green belts that could squash you.

Why don't you go back to your mystical mountain and levitate for another decade....

He doesn't need a mountain to levitate.

He got some green plant which he smokes to levitate. I hope he'll fall and hit his head hard enough that he bleeds internally.

-Taison out