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#291193 - 10/06/06 12:52 PM Re: Longfist videos [Re: MattJ]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Matt,

As Ernest Rothrock explained it to me Northern Long Fist is a system into itself. I recall he described it as using clean long range techniques. When Wu Shu was created Long Fist became sort of the compulsory standard competition devision (this is earlier WuShu) similar to old figure skating forms.

As Longfist has been around for long time, much of it's forms were absorbed into other Northern Systems and enhanced for those systems standards.

Just labeling forms Longfist, may or my not be accurate as I think the label has become more generic for a type of system movement, instead of necessarly the original longfist system.

The 2nd form on that list I had studied a long time ago, Gong Le Guen (spelling from memory) was translated into English as Power Fist (likely not a litteral translation).

IMO, the forms demonstrated are more traditiona than modernized too.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#291194 - 10/06/06 11:46 PM Re: Longfist videos [Re: Victor Smith]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[Fisherman wrote
Quote:


Another reason form doing forms, they provide decent exercise and some people like doing them. Not everyone is into martial arts to become a fighter, some just do it because they like it.





I understand that completely.


Razor foot --

I donít know that your analogy is the best one perhaps.


ThomsonsPier wrote
Quote:

I agree that they're probably not necessary to develop fighting skills, but I enjoy doing them





That would have sufficed with me.


Victor Smith wrote
Quote:



Ö.and they have very long traditions behind them.





I believe thatís why theyíre done more than perhaps any other reason. Tradition for the sake of tradition.


MattJ wrote
Quote:

John -
I view this forum as having many functions. Among other things, I like to think of it as a library or repository of information. Seek and ye shall find.





Of course.


Quote:


In that sense, even though I personally have little interest in forms, I have heard the term "longfist" for a long time. What is it? What does it look like? I really didn't know. So, I happened across some info and figured that maybe others would be curious as I was.

I think others have pointed out that there are other reasons (cultural, historic, etc.) besides strict functionality regarding forms. To each his or her own.





I understand Matt. Iím merely asking these questions because Iím simply trying to see through the eyes of others.




-John

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#291195 - 10/07/06 12:51 AM Re: Longfist videos [Re: JKogas]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Look let's longfist to the Max. I've taken some time to compile the following. Enjoy,

Many of the Northern systems do their form on an East-West axis. Long fist reportedly being the 'grand-daddy' also uses this embusen.

If you look at the classical longfist forms you will see how elements from the system were used in later form development.

Yi Lu ChaQuan Classical LongFist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH5CCqAtcgc
Er Lu ChaQuan Classical LongFist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpWELFWecvM
San Lu ChaQuan Classical LongFist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOaIi4HB2SM

Look at the differences between the contemporary and the classical forms.

ChangQuan - yi - Contemporary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObiygVWC-1Y
ChangQuan - Er - Contemporary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xFPWNMaeAQ
ChangQuan - San - Contemporary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEllGdmG7K8
ChangQuan - Si - Contemporary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS7zs80tcjk

Youíll see some repetition of the classical longfist throughout the following forms.

WuShu-LongFist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHUq4yGgg94
Xiaohong Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU3Cb60oAQ0
Lianbu-quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-xTb73wB7s
Erlu Maifu (2nd Ambush)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGyGwy38dM
Shizi-tang Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boY5No1LPQo
Shaolin Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY2Z0IvNNz4
Bagua Dandao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ffUu8TqC-w
Shaolin taizu changquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ap1Ee9ftPY
Zhao Changjun - Changquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Ij5NAOmKs

This basic form Gongli-quan (powerfist) was a form I once studied. It was part of the Chin Woo Association basic forms sets. This set also includes Tam Tuie. A student would study them before they branched out into the individual instructors personal style (so all the association members had the same basics).

Huo Yuanjia was the founder of the Chin Woo Association (guess what current movie is about his efforts?) and the style taught a combination of arts - ďBecause Huo was widely admired as a Chinese national hero, a series of other masters agreed to teach at the school including Eagle Claw master Chen Zizheng, Seven Star Praying Mantis master Luo Guangyu, Xingyi master Geng Xiaguang, and Wu Jianquan, the founder of Wu style Taijiquan. ď from the Winpedia.
Gongli-quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zorsx50Dhss


Iíve found an older Eagle Claw, Mantis and Northern Shaolin Set that I think lets you see the Longfist influence in part, even with their stylistic differences.

eagle claw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umy1NRtVfx8

Mantis Taiwan 1964 (1of3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XMIQrvinM&mode=related&search=

Northern Shaolin Cross Battle Form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ILMRctJQA

Kungfu Long Fist (Small Cotton Fist)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5814774077973210441&q=martial+arts+staff&hl=en

Remember too the forms are but a part of each of those systems, extensive two person sets, extensive weapons work (to develop the grip and overall physical ability) and of course sparring practices, all combine for each systems potential.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#291196 - 10/08/06 06:16 AM Re: Longfist videos [Re: Victor Smith]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Another component of Northern Arts are the low kicking techniques from Tam Tui.

White Crane Tan Tui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt5nN5i2xMc

Lam Kwong Wing - Tan Tui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwJtxgh535Q

shilu de tan tui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiKwzMg9LTk

Han Chingtang
This takes place in 1965 Tapei Park. It starts of with Han Chingtang performing performing Si Lopen Da and Tan Tui. At the end his sudent performs Hsing I and Yang Chia Chang spear form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiyKZBHN958
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#291197 - 02/17/07 06:14 AM Re: Longfist videos [Re: JKogas]
Peter32 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 10
One of the things that the forms teach are basic ways of movements; how to use your whole body to develop power.

I've always had to come up with my own martial applications for forms (Oh, my Sifu would give me some, but I also needed my own). This led me to disect them and say "How can I use this as a Lock/Strike/Throw" on all the movements.

Once in a while I'll think of a movement and say "Hey that could be effective." And then I almost always realize that it's from such and such form.

However, as you said Forms are not neccessary to become a good fighter; they do supplement your training quite well however.

Along with them you need the free sparring, the body conditioning, the bag work, etc.

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