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#290809 - 10/04/06 12:01 PM tai sabaki
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
in your dojo how do you do tai sabaki?

i am asking this because my sensei asked me how i did this in my last dojo and he would like to incorporate it in his teaching. its been 15 years since i have done this and what i remember it was like one step sparring one person attacks and you angle into the attack.then block, strike but there was more to it i think. what i almost remember was like block, strike, then the other person would block and then counter strike. again this was angular movement.

thanks for the help
mike
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#290810 - 10/04/06 12:19 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: kensai1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Ken,

Tai-sabaki is one of those things that can be really rudimentary or take on a life of its own. Think Aikido, or the bob and weave and then counter in boxing. If this is something to be extrapolated and done in practice without having a lot of baseline instruction, it may not be good enough.

Tai-sabaki should also maintain an element of superior position. A slipped punch for instance, allowing for a counter as the opponent is reconstructing his stance after punch recovery. There is also an allowance for use of weak lines in the opponent’s stance and few other assorted details that can be worked on at higher levels.

But to answer your question, first I would look at parrying strikes and angling your body to set up good counters. A good starting point would be to move at 45 degree angles to slip linear punches and kicks while thinking how to set up a counter.

-B

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#290811 - 10/04/06 12:30 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: kensai1]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Ultimately 1 of the goals of Tai-sabaki is you don't block, you evade and everythings offense. Usually from an angle where you can hithim and it would be hard for him to hit you.

Kihon Kumite is very basic training for Tai-sabaki it is high level fighting technique. That is developed throughout training.
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DBAckerson

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#290812 - 10/04/06 12:44 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: Neko456]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
thanks for your responses so far. as i said its been a long time, and while i do remember the angular type movements very well i just could not remember the blocks, but i do remember there being counter strikes and we used to go on for a while while we did this. it almost seemed like a dance. i got more out of this then one, two, three step or semi and free sparring. it was like learning a new language for me. we also did not announce our attacks.

thanks again and anymore input would be greatly appreciated

mike
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#290813 - 10/04/06 01:12 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: kensai1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Ken,

I think you might be generalizing here when considering that all karate styles would have similar training schemes. I think there are probably thousands of standard practices.

In the school that I participate in, there is a specific training paradigm with a 12-step movement system laid out on a four-section quandrant that would give the practioner a basic sense of tai-sabaki.

Other schools will have other drills and address the qualifications to tai-sabaki within their own stylistic concerns. So, unfortunately, though anyone here can give a personal take on this, it still probably won't help you unless you actually practiced with them.

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#290814 - 10/04/06 01:32 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: butterfly]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
hi butterfly,
in my early days of training in shotokan with the jka we never did tai sabaki it was not until i switched to kenkojuku shotokan that i heard the term and practiced tai sabaki. 15 years later i am back into shotokan with the iskf and the sensei of the school asked me about it because the federation is now starting to use it and he wanted to learn more about tai sabaki. its been so long since i practiced tai sabaki that i wanted to get more information to refresh my memory. i believed i sort of described the fundamentals. i do not know aikido and the only art i really trained in outside of shotokan for a short time was shorinryu and even then it was never brought up.

i read your post again and agree with you that maybe that getting information will not help and yes you are right about practicing it in the dojo unfortunately i am the only one that has ever gone through the drills. its just been a while as i stated and i was trying to bounce my memory back with some of the information again, some of the information has helped me.

thanks
mike


Edited by kensai1 (10/04/06 01:54 PM)
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#290815 - 10/04/06 02:15 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: kensai1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I understand now. Thanks for the post!

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#290816 - 10/04/06 02:23 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: kensai1]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
a good starting point is to look at footwork, 'body change' and timing.

Tai Sabaki gives us immediate advantage over any attack - in theory!
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#290817 - 10/04/06 03:09 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: shoshinkan]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Jim,

Agreed. Again, the hardest part is putting all this together so that you have breathing, timing, distance and angle down correctly. This means footwork. But all of it is easier said than done.

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#290818 - 10/04/06 04:08 PM Re: tai sabaki [Re: butterfly]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
as with anything, if we learn/understand the components then skill comes over time, with practise.

Of course the thing that really counts, function - is directly related to experience.

no short cuts in this game!

Ashi/Tai Sabaki are generally extremly badly presented in karate dojos, I was fortunate enough to begin karate in the sankukai system (shukokai development by Nanbu Sensei), a modern system that stressed these elements.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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