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#290735 - 10/04/06 12:43 AM BJJ and Luta Livre - difference?
Lokkan-Do Offline

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Luta Livre is an art that was practised in Brazil since 1927...despite this it resembles Ju Jitsu and more remarkable BJJ.


#290736 - 10/04/06 12:59 AM Re: BJJ and Luta Livre - difference? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
Dereck Offline

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10417
Loc: Great White North
Cool, I liked it. Their workout of running around, high knees, belt pulls and stuff are much like our own. Some good technique there that I'd love to pick up on more. I will keep this video as many techniques that I like I will view as a video and then take to class and try out over and over till I and others can get it. Very much resemblies BJJ.

#290737 - 10/04/06 01:19 AM Re: BJJ and Luta Livre - difference? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I don't know mych about Luta Livre other than that there are several different schools with very different philosophies and training methodologies.

With the proliferation of Vale Tudo in Brazil, many people wanted to fight but either did not want to train with the gi or did not want to train with the Gracies or their associates. There was always a major rivalry between BJJ and LL because of this. There were many legendary battles such as some of those seen on Gracies In Action such as Carlson Gracie BB Wallid Ismail against LL's Eugenio Tadeau. There also quite a few fights on the original Renzo Gracie-Craig Kukuk videos with Ralph, Renzo and Ryan fighting LL guys.

In the early days, LL guys were brawlers who could wrestle. In the last few years you can see a much higher level of skill, due (IMHO) to the BJJ Vale Tudo and LL fighters crossing over the boundaries to work with other camps.

These days Nino "Elvis" Schembri trains with Chute Boxe, Babalu Sobral came from LL and now trains with Gracie Barra and it is much harder to tell who trains where.

I will say that more than five years ago you be hard pressed to find anyone from Luta Livre training submission work like that demo'd in the video. That has been integrated recently.

#290738 - 10/04/06 05:51 AM Re: BJJ and Luta Livre - difference? [Re: Fletch1]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Luta Livre. That's named I've not heard mentioned in a while. From everything I've ever known, Luta Livre was people doing BJJ no-gi, just not at the same level perhaps as the Gracies themselves. Of course, that was back in the day.

Now everyone trains no-gi and everyone includes striking. In other words, its something new, now called....uh, wait a minute it's coming......OH YEAH, it's called...MMA.

Now having just checked out the youtube clip, that doesn't look any different than anything currently being done by either camp. To say that there are two completely different "styles" and methods would be inaccurate.


#290739 - 10/04/06 01:20 PM Re: BJJ and Luta Livre - difference? [Re: Fletch1]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Forgot to mention Marco Ruas (Ruas Vale Tudo) training with Joe Moreira and Vanderlai Silva (Chute Boxe) training with Gracie Barra, both earning their Black Belts in BJJ.

#435929 - 07/13/13 08:52 AM Re: BJJ and Luta Livre - difference? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I decided to ressurect this thread out of sheer boredom while af drill. Now that my zombification is explained, Luta Livre wasn't actually just No-Gi BJJ but was mainly Catch Wrestling fused with Amateur wrestling and I believe Judo. of course constant fighting, and eventually crosstraining with BJJ created a lot of parallels in terms of technique and positions but it started as a separate art based mostly on Catch Wrestling. Luta Livre grew amongst the poorer classes of people initially who couldn't even afford to train in BJJ so at first it was it's own system. Some modern schools are still very different. It involves much more wrestling, leg locks which BJJ got from Luta Livre and neck cranks and those techniques at all levels. It also involved a very aggressive and athletic submission oriented style. Carlson Gracie BJJ actually looks like it a lot because those guys were some of the first to break from the original BJJ style and cross train. Later a lot of LL guys went to BJJ schools probably because that's where the money was but they did that much later. Cacareco was a LL guy when he began and he beat Werdum in ADCC and Filho in a LL vs. BJJ tournament. You see much better takedowns and top game and a more aggressive and simplistic guard game with LL but less technical escapes from bottom positions (watch Eugenio Tadeu vs. Renzo Gracie to see what I mean).
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon:,

#436385 - 02/20/15 12:46 AM Re: BJJ and Luta Livre - difference? [Re: Lokkan-Do]
George Stando Offline

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 4
I met some luta live guys way back in LA. I think originally they were moving in the right direction with mixing in the wrestling and going no gi. They didnt have the numbers of practitioners that BJJ had so they were always outnumbered and outgunned but their approach was a good one to build on for MMA but things evolved and changed.


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