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#290616 - 10/10/06 07:41 PM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: shoshinkan]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Please excuse the poor presentation but here is some intro Bunkai I teach for Pinan Sho. The kata pictures are also there so you can see where the bunkai comes from, well in theory.

Please remember I realise 'fights' don't look like this but we do train as realistic as possible, all of these techniques are pressure tested, if the principles are transfered then we are doing good.

I shall be sorting a cam corder so you can see it in real time soon.

Look forward to what you have to say, kind of............

http://www.putfile.com/shoshinkan
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#290617 - 10/10/06 10:09 PM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: shoshinkan]
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Damn Jim

And there was me thinking that people describing my karate as messy were insulting me!!!!
_________________________
John L

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#290618 - 10/10/06 10:44 PM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: shoshinkan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
don't put too much weight on my comments, just sharing thoughts...

100_0710 - opening move. going on the inside when an attack comes from the side is too slow and dangerous (basically, you have to turn,hard block and uppercut before he can use his other hand...which wouldn't be chambered).

100_0711 - too easy to twist out of this hold.

100_0712 - to get from the last position to here, I'm having trouble visualizing....I'll wait for the video

100_0713 - two of his arms against one of yours?

100_0714 - ahh, I see. thats better. - hard to transition to here from what the previous frame shows.

100_0715 - ouch. I'd have to see the vid of how you get to here though.

100_0716 - Good!

100_0717 - ok. but is this transitioned from the previous shuto?


overall, pretty good. I like the shuto interpretation. work on figuring out a better opening move.

also, do you toe kick with your large toe over your others? I know many in Shorin do this...but why? would you do that with shoes on? can you form your foot like that quick enough? not being a wise-guy...it's something I always wondered.

good job, Jim. looking forward to the vid.

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#290619 - 10/11/06 04:05 AM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: JohnL]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
LOL John, the 'traditionalist' go mental when we train together but they keep coming back for more.

I guess im tolerated.............
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#290620 - 10/11/06 04:31 AM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
cheers for the comments Ed, I just wrote out a lengthy response but lost it so will do again later.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#290621 - 10/11/06 05:51 AM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
100_0710 - same time hard block/strike, it works well with a backfist to the nose as well, it is started from being pushed which gives you a slight hint on whats coming.

100_0711 - forget it being a 'hold', its a strike, I grabbed simply to stop him moving away

100_0712 - simply roll the 'high' arm over the attackers arm and bar down just above the elbow joint, I press in to the body to secure when he is down.

100_0713 - getting the elbow onto his centre line stops the butt, step off line and back to unbalance a little.

100_0714 - LOL

100_0715 - just after the foot of the kick lands strike moroto uke, backfist first then follow with the punch underneath.

100_0716 - 1st shuto then step at angle for 0717

I toe kick simply by pressing big toe and next toe together, works well and with shoes.

Appriciate your comments Ed.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#290622 - 10/11/06 01:22 PM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: oldman]
steelwater Offline
On the Ansatsuken installment-plan

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 222
In response to Oldman's picture:

Rising block! The first application ever shown to me by my instructor. I am in love with oldman.


Edited by steelwater (10/11/06 01:23 PM)

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#290623 - 11/01/06 08:47 AM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: steelwater]
JoeSan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 10
Loc: South Africa
Hey Guys.
IMHO Kata should be practised for Kata's sake, and the "applications/bunkai" should be used mearly for a brief explanation to learn the Kata faster and better.
Actual application of the techniques as they are sequenced and done in Kata is by all means not street effective. But change the sequence around, Combine them differently and you can get to some deadly combo's.
But, Kata as is, is not for use in combat, You'll only get yourself hurt, Badly.
_________________________
Strike with deadly Chicken head

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#290624 - 11/01/06 11:15 AM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: JoeSan]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Hey Guys.
IMHO Kata should be practised for Kata's sake, and the "applications/bunkai" should be used mearly for a brief explanation to learn the Kata faster and better.
Actual application of the techniques as they are sequenced and done in Kata is by all means not street effective. But change the sequence around, Combine them differently and you can get to some deadly combo's.
But, Kata as is, is not for use in combat, You'll only get yourself hurt, Badly.




And you base that on what experience?

Let me try and be more clear. Kata practice is certainly not for cage fighting,but that is just one type of combat. What about a parking lot assault? Mugging? Etc...Are you telling me that in your seventeen years of training since the age of seven that there's nothing in kata that can help you?


Edited by BrianS (11/01/06 11:23 AM)
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#290625 - 11/02/06 05:51 PM Re: Rules of Bunkai [Re: JoeSan]
kakushiite Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA
JoeSan wrote:

"Actual application of the techniques as they are sequenced and done in Kata is by all means not street effective."

I donít know what kata you are referring to, or what you consider street-effective. I have seen this argument before. One well known Okinawan master uses an alphabet analogy. Each movement represents a letter, and to make words, you need to take letters from different parts of the kata and patch them together to make words.

I am certainly not an authority on a whole bunch of kata, and for kata that I do not study, this may be the case. But there are a whole bunch of Shorin Ryu kata for which this is wrong. Multiple directions work remarably well in sequence. ab or abc. bc or bcd, cd or cde on so on.

I discuss some combinations below based directly on consecutive movements in kata. It is my belief that there are plenty fighters training in fight-oriented systems (Boxing Muay Thai, PMA.) that would consider the following combinations useful in the street.

1. Left parry of a right jab, right hook/elbow to the head, left jab to the head/neck. (repeat)

2. Right parry, of a left jab, left hook/elbow to the head, right jab to the head/neck, left hook/elbow to the head, right hook/elbow to the head.

3. Right parry of a left jab, jam the right hand at the chin, right jab to the head/neck, left hook to the head, right hook to the head

4. Right parry of left jab, left cross, pull the hand back to deflect the right strike to the head, kick to the groin, or knee to the body.

From a second beginner kata.

Parry with the left, hook/elbow with the right, hook/elbow with the left, follow, if needed with a single or two legged takedown.

From a third beginner kata.

Parry with the right, left cross to the head/neck, right hook to the head, left cross to the stomach, followed, if needed with a single or double legged takedown.

These combinations come directly from the movements of three beginner kata, and each follows the kata pattern movement by movement. There is no cutting and pasting. No bit from here, bit from there. You just pick up the kata at a certain place and follow it along.

Practice those combinations in kata, in the air, on a bag, with weights and against a partner, and you have some real fighting ammunition. And that's just a start. These beginner kata are filled with good fighting applications like these.

-Kakushite

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