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#29024 - 05/31/04 08:50 AM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
gojuwarrior1 Offline
tougher than you

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 1178
Loc: East Coast, USA
may i ask why everyone insists that karate training is pre arranged and always againt a non resistant opponent? this is not the cases at all (or am i fourtunate to be in a real bujutsu center?)in any case our goju karate training insists on full contact fighting (here is my school,http://www.modernbujutsu.com/).It seems to me no one has had the chance to witness true bujutsu in action.Please people ,dont belive in the hype,karate, in its true form is a very formidable force,any art.but everyone has their prefence i guess? but it dosent hurt to train in any other art, because every art is missing something.thats why i train in goju,kickboxing, and combat submission wrestling to fill in the voids of my training. In all realness, we should be not worried on whats better but, whats better for the person.

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#29025 - 05/31/04 09:30 AM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donald:
What a fucking stupid question to ask....wtf?!?!?!
boxing only involves punching...why only do that when you can knee, kick, head strike and elbow.
[/QUOTE]


Donald: No one is suggesting to only do boxing (pure boxing anyway). As I have alluded to earlier, boxing is a core element in the over all game. It is by no means complete. They way I look at training is, you have to isolate each area of fighting to improve those areas. What that means for us is, to box, to wrestle, to do jits, to kickbox. That is solely for improving each of those specific elements. Then you have to put them all together into one cohesive whole. That includes kicking and kneeing, etc.

Therefore when I am discussing boxing, I'm only speaking of the delivery system, not the "sport". There's a difference.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donald:

Muay Thia is the ruler of stand up fighting. Just look at Pride, UFC, IVC, King of the cage etc...MMA events. You never ever see a boxer enter it without cross-training, its succidal. Not to mention grappling as an important alternative....I have many clips of boxers, kung fu experts, karate, even some muay thia and kick boxers Vs grapplers (judo, BJJ) and about 95% of the time, graaplers win. It shows how important it is to cross train and quite simply, BOXING is pathetic against a trained MMA opponent.
[/QUOTE]

I agree there. Only because ANY fighter who is one diminsional that is pitted against a multi-diminsional fighter is going to lose in this day and age. You have to have the complete game. No argument here.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donald:

Vanderlei SIlva VS Mike Tyson or any known boxer. He'll be kissing canvas in round one!
[/QUOTE]


That really all depends. Are we talking about Vanderlei STANDING against Mike, or GROUND fighting with Mike? I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate a good pro boxer in the stand-up game. Sure Vanderlei has good the kicks and knees, but Tyson has better hands. In my experience, a person with better hands will defeat someone with kicking. All he's got to do is stay out of the clinch.


Take care!

-John



[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 05-31-2004).]

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#29026 - 05/31/04 09:35 AM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
1st Round KO Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 1497
Loc: New York City, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donald:
What a fucking stupid question to ask....wtf?!?!?!
boxing only involves punching...why only do that when you can knee, kick, head strike and elbow. Muay Thia is the ruler of stand up fighting. Just look at Pride, UFC, IVC, King of the cage etc...MMA events. You never ever see a boxer enter it without cross-training, its succidal. Not to mention grappling as an important alternative....I have many clips of boxers, kung fu experts, karate, even some muay thia and kick boxers Vs grapplers (judo, BJJ) and about 95% of the time, graaplers win. It shows how important it is to cross train and quite simply, BOXING is pathetic against a trained MMA opponent. Vanderlei SIlva VS Mike Tyson or any known boxer. He'll be kissing canvas in round one!
[/QUOTE]

i agree that multi system fighting is imperative in UFC or other MMA forums, but a world class professional boxer like tyson will do some serious damage to any martial artist who does not immediately take him to the ground. one punch from tyson and you could be looking at a broken neck. i dont think many MMA fighters could claim similar abilities.

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#29027 - 05/31/04 10:29 AM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


hahahahaha times ten to the power of a million. Tyson, that fat peice of walking shit!!!?!?!
Vanderlei Silva would flush him down the toilet quite easily, so would most MMA fighters...but Silva wouldn't leave any stains!!!
He'd to to Tysin as he did to Rampage Jackson, but in the 1st minute. Who agrees???

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#29028 - 05/31/04 10:43 AM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Has Tyson ever broken anyone's neck anyway?
It ever rarely happens in MMA.
But why would a practitionar of MMA trade punches with someone who has devoted ALL there time and effort in, thats where all his technique and potensy lies and opponents of a good boxer would know this and improvise a new game plan. Why be lurred into your opponents favour, create a new tactic...thats what MMA is all about!
Anyway...I'm fighting in a Edinburgh Pride championships soon, its the same rules as Pride fc. Iv'e trained with gi's and without, what do you think I should fight in?

Donald.....sound

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#29029 - 05/31/04 10:49 AM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


Has Tyson ever broken anyone's neck anyway?
It ever rarely happens in MMA.
But why would a practitionar of MMA trade punches with someone who has devoted ALL there time and effort in, thats where all his technique and potensy lies and opponents of a good boxer would know this and improvise a new game plan. Why be lurred into your opponents favour, create a new tactic...thats what MMA is all about!
Anyway...I'm fighting in a Edinburgh Pride championships soon, its the same rules as Pride fc. Iv'e trained with gi's and without, what do you think I should fight in?

Donald.....sound

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#29030 - 05/31/04 01:01 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donald:
Has Tyson ever broken anyone's neck anyway?
[/QUOTE]

erm... yes he has, Ogloto's neck was busted by a Tyson punch. Trust me, when they measured the power of Mike Tysons punch it wasnt much of surprise when they described it as - "like a small bus hitting you".

The man would devastate most martial artists, mixed or not. He has perfected the science of punching and he commands great power with his punches and to say he is no good is complete ignorance.
He was/is a mean mofo! simple as that, he is a pure fighting machine and if the man was to train in grappling and Muay Thai he would surprise quite a lot of you MMA fanatics.... well at least in his prime (of course, for sake of arguement [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG])

UFC is comparitively small, there is not many fighters in UFC so its quite easy to be disillusioned by good fighters who prevail in UFC as being the "best" there is. Benny the jet is a prime example of this blindness, thinking cos he tore a whole in the US kickboxing scene and the European kickboxing scene that he could travel off to Thailand and make a mark, how wrong he was!

So, in UFC you have grapplers and standup fighters who mix up things... why? cos its necessary for fighting in the UFC arena, the ground is safe and strategically important. Now, would many of these "great" fighters do so well when in, lets say, Kachin?

What I have learned is that the man (man being a thing) with the biggest voice and the most impressive looking outfit (UFC - Pride - K1 etc etc) isnt necessarly the best, it comes as no surprise when I have seen many American and European, not to mention a Canadian, Mixed Martial artists in Thailand training and totally having their eyes opened and being humbled because they thought what they knew was the "way it really was", when you get thrown around like a ragdoll by a man who is 1-2 foot smaller than you and a few good kilos lighter then you witness the same man fight like a machine - literally, this does tend to make you view the western world of competitve fighting sports as nothing but quite amatuerish. I aint saying they are crap fighters.... they simply didnt begin walking and fighting at the same time.

then come sthe arguement "so then why dont they come to USA to fight".... I suppose they simply dont want to and to be honest I dont think its because of "fear", they gain more glory and honor in their own countries than they ever would in USA or Europe. A Thaiboxer in Thailand can be compared to a 1st Division footballer in England. Fighters in USA and Europe do not get that kind of status.

There are many countries which hold submission grappling and MMA type events but are not on the spotlight and to be honest they have been around much longer than UFC and even the Gracies. These countries are the quite ones, they have a pretty simple looking outfit and dont shout a lot... these countries, in my opinion are where you will find the greatest fighters.

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#29031 - 05/31/04 01:29 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


get bent!

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#29032 - 05/31/04 01:35 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Anonymous
Unregistered


If you think Tysons punch is like "a small bus hitting you"....I bet CRO COP's left round house is like the real thing!

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#29033 - 05/31/04 02:25 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
Donald - shut up once again! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Cro-cop... haha, man your such a dumb ass! Cro cop and Mike in the ring together, only boxing, who would win?

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