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#28994 - 05/29/04 01:55 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
MuayThai Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 2242
Loc: UK
Guys, a fight on teh street or in the ring is really not that different. As I have said countless times before what will work in a ring will work outside it. Thats it, so stop making stupid excuses and trying to defend whatever the hell it is you're trying to defend by saying "it wont work on the street", if it works with full contact fighting in a ring with a referee, doctors at ring side and rounds then it will work outside the ring without rounds, referee and doctors at ring side, this is with or without ropes! Dont you get it, fighting is fighting no matter where it takes place the only difference is "street" is more dangerous, thats really it, no if's or buts, its simply a case of there being no rules, to think a pro ring fighter doesnt realise that he isnt fighting in the ring when fighting on the street is stupid and very ignorant, thinking he will be "used" to fighting so much in teh ring that when it comes down to it on the street he wont know what to do is laughable, really it is, it's amazing people think that these very tough ring fighters are not very tough when it comes to fighting without rules. haha, its mindblowing to think that they will only use what they use in the ring when fighting on the street....

...catch a grip and wake up to the reality of fighting. If you dont fight then you are at a very big disadvantage when faced with a real fighter. No matter what you know and how many belts you have or point tournements you've won or how good you are in teh gym when its sparring time, if you are faced with an Amatuer Boxer I'd put my money on the amatuer boxer, they are hard as nails and know exactly how to fell a guy by simply using his fists, take him to the ground, do whatever you want but if you aint used to fighting then yer up s**t creek! He is so familiar with fighting that to be honest he will have fun with you and probably think you're insane when you stand and do nothing or take him down to the ground and again do nothing while he blatters you.... believe it, if you havnt got the experience, and I will tell you that almost all boxers do have fight experience unlike martial artists, you are technically a useless fighter, take that as an insult but thats the realities of fighting. With no fight experience you will do almost everything you have been trained not to do or a wall will come around your eyes, you will just be fighting with your nerves and uncontrolled technique, missing and being hit by the more experienced fighter at hand.

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#28995 - 05/29/04 01:55 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:
Yes, definitely use MMA gloves for a lot of your work. The problem with that is the greater chance of injury when going hard. That's why using the boxing glove is mandatory.

Now, I don't think that boxing by itself is complete. You definitely have to add the clinching game with it (ie., Greco-Roman/Muay Thai).

[/QUOTE]

boxing has similiar tactics to martial arts "look for openening" the difference is that boxers learn to take a punch, some martial artist can learn from this. The circular footwork and method of delivery is different, so a good boxer can outsmart a martial artist. Can punch the leg, punch on the arm depends how boxer uses boxing skills.
Depends on how boxer uses superior tactics to land punches and how martial artist uses superior tactics regarding the style of boxer. Generally I think boxers have better timing and defenses against most martial arts but not all.

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#28996 - 05/29/04 02:39 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
MuayThai makes a great point in that, ALL of the techniques that you use in the ring, will work on the street. That ISN'T always the case with the "street" stuff that people seem to always emphasize.

Think about it this way, if you practice things you can't actually practice (meaning, due to their "theoretical danger" you cannot try them for real against your partner), how do you know for sure that they're going to work like you think they will? The answer is, you CAN'T be sure.

You CAN be sure that your ring skills will work for you however. The difference is your strategy, not your tactics. It's hard to fathom that more people don't realize this now.


-John

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#28997 - 05/29/04 02:44 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
John_C Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 572
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas:

Answer: The one that lost [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

I shouldn't laugh but...

LOL [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Quote of the week there, my friend [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#28998 - 05/29/04 02:55 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
John_C Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 572
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshinryukid4life:
Boxing is a MA,It's just not a selfdefense art.
[/QUOTE]

Well yeah, no x-blocks or finger jabs, how could it be?
[QUOTE]
In other words, If you're to use a boxers punch during a streetfigh, You could injure your thumb & thus lose the fight or worse. [/QUOTE]

How so?

The boxer's punch has the thumb over the index & middle finger, between 2nd & 1st knuckles, on the outside of the fist. It seems pretty biomechanically sound to me. In that respect, it's no different to the BKB pugilist's fist.

[QUOTE]PS You can't tape up your hands during a streetfight. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

Can't kick your shoes off and put a gi on neither, genius. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#28999 - 05/29/04 04:24 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John_C:
Can't kick your shoes off and put a gi on neither, genius. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[/QUOTE]



[This message has been edited by pete (edited 05-29-2004).]

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#29000 - 05/29/04 04:26 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
pete Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 700
Loc: England
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John_C:
Can't kick your shoes off and put a gi on neither, genius. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[/QUOTE]

Could use the skipping rope tie the martial artist up, throw a medicine ball, distraction, take your boxing gloves out of bag, uh bad idea, gum sheilds, well forget those welcome to street boxing. Groin protectors, ouch try stuffing those down your jeans while defending your self.

[This message has been edited by pete (edited 05-29-2004).]

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#29001 - 05/29/04 04:34 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Yoseikan Student Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: UK
Oh, FFS!!!

Fighting is fighting. Everything else isn't.

Some things share common factors with fighting, some things don't.

Some things share more common factors with fighting then other things.

EVERYONE DISAGREES. Thats because (and I make no exceptions here), we are all nobheads who log onto a forum to TALK about fighting.

damn.

Alec (pissed off and tired)

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#29002 - 05/29/04 04:58 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
John_C Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 572
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pete:
Could use the skipping rope tie the martial artist up, throw a medicine ball, distraction, take your boxing gloves out of bag, uh bad idea, gum sheilds, well forget those welcome to street boxing. Groin protectors, ouch try stuffing those down your jeans while defending your self.
[/QUOTE]

Once again pete, I have no idea what message you're attempting to communicate.

Are you saying boxers need gear to fight, like Isshin was?

You're kidding yourself, I think, although I wouldn't encourage you to test the theory out.

Typically, Isshin tosses out an unargued one liner as his "point", and my gi comment is simply a rejoinder to that to point out the facility of what he's saying.

Frankly I was still reeling from the "boxing punches damage your thumbs" revelation at the time.

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#29003 - 05/29/04 05:27 PM Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
This post is really more for a sport vs. street debate, but I find that it parallels the discussion here to some extent, so I'm posting it anyway. Sue me.

About half of the people get it and (oddly enough), half don't. The half that don't are the same folks who love the mystery of the martial arts and, the romance of "street fighting". They pretend to train because their arts are just too deadly to spar with. They "know" (somehow they know) that they can KILL a man with just a few blows.

Not that THEY'VE ever done it, but that's what they've been TOLD (because as you know, their master's, master's, master's, master's, master did it once several hundred years ago). These folks know that THEIR art is the ONLY true art for the "street"! (By GOD!)


But for those who enjoy the tough, demanding, and athletic nature of "sportive" training, nothing really needs to be said. You already realize that self-defense is a by-product of your training and wouldn't trade it for anything. It is through the attributes that you develop through this training, that you become the toughened, spiritually strong warriors of what the martial arts are all about. This type of training IS Budo, in motion and you are Budo personified.

YOU folks realize that the majority of the people who speak of "street fighting" this, and "combat" that, aren't the ones who actually do any fighting -- they're too busy training those tactics which are "TOO DANGEROUS" to use during sparring and competition. You also realize that they are the LEAST of all the people that you need ever worry about encountering on the proverbial "street"! Those are the guys who would most likely feel the pulse of cowardice during the initial moments of a hostile situation.

The people who need to be highly respected, are the ones who sweat, bleed, and push themselves to the brink of exhaustion. They punch and get punched in return, suffering the occasional blackened eye, or bloody lip in the process. They are the people who wrestle to submission, against equally toughened men and women attempting to fight back and execute the exact same tactics as their opponents. They LOSE more often than they win many times in these 'battles' before their skills become perfected through use.

These people KNOW pain, and know physical and mental exhaustion. They know about sore muscles. They learn through these trials by fire, how to maintain their poise during the periods where their opponents have the momentum. Thus, they learn to ride the storm out, knowing how to come back and turn the tide in their favor. This only comes through experience. This comes from the school of hard knocks.

All these things will NEVER be present with those who merely PRETEND to train and fight. Those are the people who train in pretend martial arts. These people train in the DEADLIEST of tactics. They know how to rip out eyes, pull hair, bite through flesh, kick out knees and slam the groin. Or at least they talk like they do (talking being SO much easier to do than actually performing). Some even know how to easily knock people out by merely touching them the more skilled among them being able to do so even at a DISTANCE!

Those folks can spew forth whatever words they want to about 'combat sport' guys, but they will ALWAYS come up short in one critical area; actual FIGHT EXPERIENCE.

Think of the thousands of hours I can rack up by rolling, boxing and doing vale tudo! Experience against a fully resisting human is what is truly important with regard to fighting ability anyway. If you think you can get this experience by PRETENDING to fight with your partners, you're only kidding yourselves, not us.

And that is no problem to me, or to any OTHER sport guy as well I'm sure. Go right ahead folks, pretend all you want.

Ask yourself if you truly believe all that pretending is going to help you against an athletic, conditioned and experienced combat sport guy. If you STILL believe that, get into the ring or on the mats with one. Go for a quick round and see if you can "hang" with one for 30 seconds before you are knocked out or submitted. THEN come back and tell us that your "pretend" training will be of benefit!


-John


[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 05-29-2004).]

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