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#290342 - 10/03/06 01:42 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: oldman]
Boomer Offline

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa

Any time a move is interpreted as simutanious blocking in different directions I would say someone is barking up the wrong tree. I think a better comparison might be made with Tai chi's "parting the horses mane" or aikidos's "Tenchi nage".

I can agree with that, though there's old 8mm footage of Nakayama doing that exact bunkai here:

Was it to throw people off? After all, Unsu means "clouded hands"...
We have very different applications to that manuever than guarding against simultaneous attacks.
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

#290343 - 10/03/06 01:49 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Boomer]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Oh boy,where to start?..

Multiple blocks befoe a counterstrike = dumb

Re te scissor kick takedown ..bullbutter!

Good show,but I hope they don't actually try that in real life.
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

#290344 - 10/03/06 06:16 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Boomer]
bo-ken Offline

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Ok I posted Nakayama doing Unsu last week and nobody talked about it expect Victor. But I want to know why everyone goes at the kata from a sparring distance. When I see Unsu it looks like close striking and take downs. NOT flying take downs like in the first video posted in this thread.

Some people train differently I guess. In the first video thoes guys most likely point spar all the time. But Nakayama I don't know how he trained but it seemed similar. I have read one of his books where he details many shotokan techniques and the entire book is striking and countering. Lately katas are really starting to confuse me.

#290345 - 10/03/06 07:09 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: bo-ken]
student_of_life Offline

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i could watch the old karate ka punch all day long....

but yeah, the bunkai is very athletic, but the way i see kata bunkai is more like in close almost clinch like fihgting, where the hikite could be used for pushing and pulling. kinda like what most people

don't you just think that these guys are sending out the messeges that karate is not "pratical"? i would say that if we watched these guys prefrom ippon kmite then they would be bouning around and throwing roundhouse kicks to the head and waring little red gloves to protect you from the sheer awsome force of one of there devestating punches!!

i give the prety boys 2 thumbs down and nakayama my heart.(theres no emoticon for swooning, darn!)
its not supposed to make sense

#290346 - 10/03/06 09:50 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: bo-ken]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
you won't find good application in video. the closest to good stuff are the Morio Higaonna series. but many Karate lines don't teach application, other than the obvious made-up long-range demo stuff. and the few that do, don't put it out on video.

#290347 - 10/04/06 01:53 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Ed_Morris]
Boomer Offline

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
i see alot of chatter about "long range"....but isn't that kinda the way shotokan developed? From Funakoshi's first kata, taikyoku shodan, it seems engrained in the art as a basic tenet.
A goju buddy of mine was talking to me about the matches between shotokan and goju fighters. Primarily, the goju guys used a neko dachi and shorter techniques vs the shotokan zenkutsu dachi and longer movements.
Maybe somewhere along these lines things got screwy and short range was lost (on these guys in the demo, i mean).
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

#290348 - 10/04/06 02:59 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Boomer]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
nah...fighting in cat stance is also a misnomer of Goju...more to do with Goju-Kai's heritage. Okinawan Goju uses it as just a transition ...not as a kamae.

#290349 - 10/04/06 03:14 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Ed_Morris]
kensai1 Offline

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
when i trained in shorinryu i had to relearn my stances in kata. pinan 1 - 5 and pasai dai where there should have been kokustu dachi there was neko ashi dachi. zenkustu dachi was shortened up a bit but not that drastic of a change.

By the way i think unsu is a beautiful form while jitte is still my favorite.


Edited by kensai1 (10/04/06 03:16 PM)

#290350 - 10/05/06 02:38 PM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Boomer]
Eternal_Student Offline

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 59
As a general rule, DO NOT try to block a kick with your arm. (Leg bones= big, arm bones= smaller.
NEVER try to block a kick with your closed hand (hand bones= smaller still). NEVER, EVER try to block a kick with your OPEN hand (a hand break is nearly guaranteed).

Unless this guy IS a walking Makiwara these blocks are BS. Often times open-handed techniques (that are interpreted incorrectly as blocks) are really grabs & pulls.

#290351 - 10/06/06 03:25 AM Re: Unsu bunkai clip [Re: Eternal_Student]
Boomer Offline

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 304
Loc: York, Pa
shotokan is all about agressive defense. I constantly block kicks with my arm...tonight in fact, I had a lil kumite with my kickboxers. One of them is a biiiig boy, 6'3" outweighing me by a good 50 lbs at least. He continued throwing this huge left mawashi keri, and I REALLY didn't want it to hit me. I saw it again, and attacked it with soto uke, punishing his shin with my superior blocking technique. I asked him later (already knowing the answer) why he stopped throwing the left kick...he confessed that the block hammered him that hard that he didn't want me to touch his leg at all.

Please don't think I'm bragging, those of you who know me know I tell you this only for the facts presented...

I don't understand why you would opt not to block kicks with the arms if you know how to block...what other options are there (for upper level attacks at least)...block with your face?

Edited by Boomer (10/06/06 03:27 AM)
Calling yourself "Master" implies that you have slaves.

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