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#289962 - 09/30/06 12:52 AM boxing vs. karate, not a poll.
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
in your art, do you really punch from the hip? (doubtful)...if not...is there really that big a difference between karate punches, and boxing punches?

note, obviously karate has a much larger toolbox from which to choose. but from a fist only standpoint (no shuto's or ridgehands) are they really that dissimilar? maybe the biggest difference is a persons point of view, or the method of power generation?
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#289963 - 09/30/06 01:00 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Its a persons training that is the major difference. While a karateka learns many different forms for his hands he also spends time training them. A boxer has to learn much less. So his training is going to yeild results faster.
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#289964 - 09/30/06 01:51 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Chen is right. But here is so much in common with boxing and classical karate though - but maybe it is just mechanics and there is only so many ways we can move.

I'll keep on taking what's good from any martial system.
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#289965 - 09/30/06 10:17 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
MattJ Offline
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Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I see very little difference IF they are trained in a similar manner.
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#289966 - 10/03/06 04:50 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
I think karate has a higher emphasis on precision/quality of hits, while boxing is more quantity and brute force. That's not to say a karate guy wouldn't throw really hard punches or a boxer wouldn't pick his targets, but generally I think the biggest difference between the two is the difference in how they are meant to be applied for maximum effect.
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#289967 - 10/03/06 04:58 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: TheFinalOption]
BleedEasy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 12
Boxers punch harder.

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#289968 - 10/03/06 05:09 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: BleedEasy]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
Quote:

Boxers punch harder.




I hope you were just saying that to reiterate what I said, and not saying that to try to say that power is the only difference between karate and boxing punches.
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#289969 - 10/03/06 07:30 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: TheFinalOption]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
my 2 cents....

alot of traditional karate schools pratice almost exclusivly straight punches(goju and isshin and kyukoshin guys please resist from the urge to hit me with a hook??) well i did in my old shotokan dojo, it wasn't till after i got my own heavy bag and asked a sensei we had in for a seminar about "boxing" style punches and why we don't train them, so he showed me how and now i do pratice them on my own time.

he told m that one of the main reasons why karate ka pratice many more straight punches then round punches was because straight punches are a very fine way for beginers to learn proper body dynamics, beginers like the school children who were some of the first to learn a "shotokan" like style of karate, so in a way pnches were kept "simple" for the sake of the children.

on the other hand, ask any expirenced karate ka, and he will tell you he most likely pratices all kinds of punches.

at least thats my expirence, theres only realy one most efficient way for the body to generate power, all the style differences are, in moy opnion just people placing focus on certin aspects of it, realy no differnece if you ask this brown belt.
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#289970 - 10/03/06 08:04 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: student_of_life]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5477406747633866773&q=shotokan

the free sparing near then end looks fine to me in terms of there punching power.

and on a side note about 1 third the way through it shows hidetaka nishiyama along side the boxer guy, there punching technique has more similarities then differences i think, just a tid bit more, nishiyama is the leader of my stlye of shotokan, woot!!!vide of the guy in his yonger years!!
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#289971 - 10/15/06 08:30 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

...is there really that big a difference between karate punches, and boxing punches?






is there really that big a difference between karate punches, and boxing punches?

The question is getting harder and harder to answer the more I look at some present day boxers/strikers.The basic punching skills are learnt then adjusted for better or worse.
How are pro boxers getting knocked out?
How are MMA’s getting knocked out?
How are karate ka getting hit in the face?
Throwing a punch say a straight right then allowing the hand to drop down and leaving themselves wide open to being countered = knock out.
|Doing the same with a jab.
Punching with their chins in the air.
Leading with their faces.
Having the wrong guard when being attacked by a flurry of punches..
I could go on.



Then the question of a karate punch. What is a typical karate punch?
Reverse punch ? Would seem that punch is the most known karate punch because of if its constant use in competiton . The punch from which karate style?(hate that word)Seems like some recent karate styles have adopted their own methods of punching
Power generation
From my seemingly limited experience it would depend on the punch being thrown as to the power generation.

Then the arguments about karate versus boxing ?

So my anwer to your question at this moment in time is I don’t know if there is a big difference between karate and boxing punches. Which punch by which boxer or karate ka?

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#289972 - 10/15/06 08:31 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: BleedEasy]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Boxers punch harder.





Its down to the person

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#289973 - 10/15/06 08:38 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Its a persons training that is the major difference. While a karateka learns many different forms for his hands he also spends time training them. A boxer has to learn much less. So his training is going to yeild results faster.




I think this would depened on the kind of training
and has nothing to do with boxing or karate.
From what I see from a lot of the modern boxers is a load of basic fundimental mistakes right up to near top pro level.

So if a person is being trained in the fundemental mistakes
even if they are training more intense because of the limited amount of strikes how does that help?

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#289974 - 10/15/06 12:44 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Boxing is full of fundamental mistakes? Like what?
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#289975 - 10/15/06 05:13 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Boxing is full of fundamental mistakes? Like what?




http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2471286240673428878&q=boxing

Mistakes I find in boxing bouts are more or less the same as the guy is making on this vidio.

Perhaps if you would like to point them out?


Edited by ANDY44 (10/15/06 06:43 PM)

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#289976 - 10/15/06 06:08 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: ANDY44]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
There are no "mistakes" in boxing. Remember, the techniques and strategies used are developed for the SPORT of boxing. Any "mistakes" you see are committed by the individual, not the art/sport.

I would be very interested in hearing what specifically these so called "mistakes" are.

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#289977 - 10/15/06 06:42 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: BigRod]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

There are no "mistakes" in boxing. Remember, the techniques and strategies used are developed for the SPORT of boxing. Any "mistakes" you see are committed by the individual, not the art/sport.
I would be very interested in hearing what specifically these so called "mistakes" are.





There are a lot of mistakes being made by boxers .
The art of boxing doesnt have mistakes
I agree. But it would seem that boxing either isnt being trained correctly at grass roots or a lot of people are making mistakes. This could also apply to some MMA's in the striking part.


Edited by ANDY44 (10/15/06 07:29 PM)

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#289978 - 10/15/06 07:46 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Bad instruction is rather universal Andy. The art of boxing itself isnt the blame. Arent you one to always say "its the individual not the art?" Theres a million strip mall karate dojos passing out blackbelts for a few hundred bucks. Its the same for TKD, Aikido, BJJ, MMA, RBSD Groups. Its everywhere. Im not interested in trading clips of bad practitioners. This conversation has gotten rather stale as well. A lot of circling going on in the conversation.
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Lao Tzu

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#289979 - 10/15/06 08:07 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Bad instruction is rather universal Andy. The art of boxing itself isnt the blame. Arent you one to always say "its the individual not the art?"




Yes I am. And the bad image given by some by karate ka is the
same as the mistakes being made by boxers. Boxers are taugth or should be taught the correct methods. Some karate ka display the wrong teachings. Some of the uses of kata are wrongly interpretated.( Although my study is at this moment limited) But boxing along with correct karate and kata are perfectly viable means of combat. I think it is down to the individual to work out what will or wont work from any style(hate that word) but first investigate.

I try to study as much as I can. Just been reading the MMA thread.

Thanks Chen Zen

Andy



Edited by ANDY44 (10/15/06 08:09 PM)

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#289980 - 10/15/06 08:10 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
But I still dont understand, what are these "mistakes" being taught to boxers?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#289981 - 10/15/06 08:26 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

But I still dont understand, what are these "mistakes" being taught to boxers?





It would seem that boxing either isnt being trained correctly at grass roots or a lot of people are making mistakes. This could also apply to some MMA's in the striking part.



http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2471286240673428878&q=boxing

As I said "it would seem" . If it is at grass roots or not I am not sure thus I said "it would seem" but either way
The guy on here is making the same mistakes that I see a lot of both in boxing and in MMA's striking. And a lot of people do the same thing therefore my assumption of grass roots. I have no doubt that some trainers are excellent in boxing and that would be better for the boxer.


Ok if you would like to discuss the mistakes I think this guy has made regardless why he made them, then ok
Can do.But it seems a lot of Boxers do the same thing as well as some MMA's/ when they train striking.


Edited by ANDY44 (10/15/06 08:41 PM)

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#289982 - 10/15/06 08:32 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Quote:

Quote:

But I still dont understand, what are these "mistakes" being taught to boxers?




If the mistakes are being taugth or not I am speculating

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2471286240673428878&q=boxing




Now I see. In your post it sounded more like a direct statement than specualtion or assumption. Really no one art has got it completely right.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#289983 - 10/18/06 03:22 AM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
BleedEasy , Sorry mate, but saying “ Boxers punch harder” is huge generalisation.

The human body only works in a certain ways, to punch the hardest way it is possible for that body to do, needs LOTS of practice in a variety of punching styles, accompanied with speed/strength/accuracy training.

What tends to emerge is a particular stylised punch, or if preferred. A mix of karate and boxing.

Punching power also depends on the moment of execution, a boxer is also worrying about getting hit, so his guard often prohibits maximum use of his body mechanics, a karate reverse punch offers nothing in the way of a guard, but does use more potential body mechanics.

Have a search for Peter Consterdine on the net, his punching power is legendary.

Regards

Mark

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#289984 - 10/23/06 01:21 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: mark]
leprechaunway Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
One of my instructors explained to me that karate punches come from the center, due to the belief that the midline of the body was where the soul and power of the person abided. Boxers, on the other hand, keep their arms up higher, because the western style of thought places more emphasis on the head and eyes.

I've also been told (by those in Karate) that boxers punch harder. This comes from the fact that boxers "commit" more to each punch. A karate strike can be just as powerful, but most karate strikes focus on setting up another strike. Boxers use combinations too, but are always looking for that KO punch. In my experience, boxing vs karate ends up with the boxer getting hit a lot more than his opponent, but the damage level comes out to about the same.

Technical differences? Boxers protect their face with their deltoids every time they strike. Also, a boxer's fist rotates in the air until the inside knuckles are pointed slightly downward. Like I said, i don't have as much experience with karate, but in the dojo's I have been going to, the punches are thrown lower and the fists don't seem to rotate.

Really not trying to preach here...I know it's one of my first posts. I've been reading these forums for about a year now, and you guys have given me some good tips. Hope this helps.

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#289985 - 10/23/06 02:54 PM Re: boxing vs. karate, not a poll. [Re: leprechaunway]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

One of my instructors explained to me that karate punches come from the center, due to the belief that the midline of the body was where the soul and power of the person abided. Boxers, on the other hand, keep their arms up higher, because the western style of thought places more emphasis on the head and eyes.





The soul and power? Sounds like alot of hoo haw to me. Power comes from how you punch not where it comes from.
Where your hands are in a confrontation depends on alot of things. You should never just keep them here or there,unless we are talking about freesparring.

Quote:

I've also been told (by those in Karate) that boxers punch harder. This comes from the fact that boxers "commit" more to each punch. A karate strike can be just as powerful, but most karate strikes focus on setting up another strike. Boxers use combinations too, but are always looking for that KO punch. In my experience, boxing vs karate ends up with the boxer getting hit a lot more than his opponent, but the damage level comes out to about the same.





I'm telling you there is not a good comparison table across the board,it depends on the two people we are comparing.
Joe punches harder than Bob,but Sam punches harder than Joe,doesn't matter who does what..see what i'm saying.
Karate strikes do not mostly set up other srikes,some do,but not mostly and the results are meant to be confrontation enders.

Quote:

Technical differences? Boxers protect their face with their deltoids every time they strike. Also, a boxer's fist rotates in the air until the inside knuckles are pointed slightly downward. Like I said, i don't have as much experience with karate, but in the dojo's I have been going to, the punches are thrown lower and the fists don't seem to rotate.





I can tell that your karate experience is indeed limited. Karate punches are meant for specific targets,not necessarily lower ones either.

I really have been missing out on the karate out there I guess.
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