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#289895 - 09/29/06 06:27 PM how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i was daydreaming about the martial arts today as i was driving.....sorry poor zanshin...and this question came to mind.

after watching the recent vid of ed moris and his nice bag work, and then of a vid posted by old man showing the sport karate french guy roundhouse kicking people in the head, i got to woundering about how much training we put into our strikes (smong other things) and how they "actually" fair in a real situation.

and in the spirit in getting to the freakin point, i'll ask this-do you feel your own personal hand strikes are actually as strong as they feel in your kata pratice?, i mean we all feel strong against air, but when it comes to a self defence situation where there will be puching, pulling and always shifting distance and emotions that your hand strikes would carry any of the body dynamics or stoping force that we train so hard to intill??

i hope this one's not taken as an insult or anything, myself personally i feel that i'm just no where near were i need to be in terms of power, but thats why the lord invented "more training"
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#289896 - 09/29/06 06:41 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: student_of_life]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
in the army i was attacked in the nco club, well it was an all out brawl. i am not tall only 5'6" and the man attacking me looked like a monster at 6' or taller. well anyways as he attacked i angled in to his side, good distance and used an open palm against his kidneys. then kneed him in the jewels from behind. the man was in the hospital hours later pissing blood. i could never have done this unless i had trained in tai sabaki. i was grateful he was ok and i also visited him in the hospital. i have not been in a real fight since and never want to again.

it might not have been real powerful but i did strike him as i have been taught. during the fight, i never thought which technique to use it just happened.

mike

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#289897 - 09/29/06 06:47 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: kensai1]
aoishi Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 123
Loc: Massachusetts

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#289898 - 09/29/06 06:55 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: student_of_life]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

...i'll ask this-do you feel your own personal hand strikes are actually as strong as they feel in your kata pratice?, i mean we all feel strong against air,





For the LIFE of me, I don't know how you test the power of your strikes against "air" to be able to determine how they feel in the first place.

Stop hitting "air" and start hitting heavy bags and sparring partners.

Quote:


i hope this one's not taken as an insult or anything, myself personally i feel that i'm just no where near were i need to be in terms of power, but thats why the lord invented "more training"






More training against air? Or? Surely you realize that your kata isn't making you a better fighter, particularly if you're not putting it into actual practice?


-John

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#289899 - 09/29/06 06:57 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: aoishi]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
that was before aoishi and a couple years earlier, to be honost. i was in many fights before that. my training started when i was 9 years old or so in cuong nhu, then at 12 i started in shotokan and really never looked back. i started getting into fights once i got my junior black. i had this thing while in high school, i was always defending a weaker person. when ever i saw someone getting picked that was smaller or weaker i wanted to defend that person. so i always stepped in. another part, is i really just wanted to see if it worked. being somewhat small as a kid, larger kids would like to try and pick on me too. i was never a bully but i did put the bullies in there place. thanks for asking though.

what i did thinking back then, i am not proud for what i did and it was a good thing my sensei never found out. i guess as youngster chuck norris was my role model. maybe i should have pick a different one aye.

also on the thread you posted i stepped in to defend someone else.

mike

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#289900 - 09/29/06 07:19 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: JKogas]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Welcome to the karate forum John!!

The purpose of kata to me is not to test power at all.I think that's way off base.

The only way to test your power is to feel it,ofcourse.

I believe I can hit relatively hard for my size.What would I say?

Quote:

More training against air? Or? Surely you realize that your kata isn't making you a better fighter, particularly if you're not putting it into actual practice?





The application practice of kata will make you a better fighter.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#289901 - 09/29/06 07:43 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: student_of_life]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
"hitting air" is only to perfect your form - that's why punches aren't retracted. Now take your perfected form to a heavy bag to feel the impact. If the form is good, your impact will get better as you practice harder. If your form is bad, you'll probably get frustrated by little-to-no improvment in impact & start hitting sloppy thus injuring yourself.

The best method I've found is the Kimura Shukokai "Impact Pad". It's thick enough to protect the pad-holder who should feel the shock within his body & small enough to be used as a moving target.

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#289902 - 09/30/06 02:54 AM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: student_of_life]
jc4199 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 362
Loc: Pevely, MO U.S.A
I feel that in Kickboxing I hit harder then I punch in Kata. But that is using two different types of punch. If I were to get in a spot where I needed to punch some one I would throw kickboxing blows. I think My karate punch is strong but not as strong as my kickboxing punch. Then again I do not do much bag work in Karate. Much more bag work in kickboxing.


Edited by jc4199 (09/30/06 02:58 AM)
_________________________
Jason
Defeat never comes to any man until he admits it.

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#289903 - 10/03/06 05:03 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: student_of_life]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
Well, I don't really do much kata (I am a self-confessed kata hater, please don't kill me ) but when I practice I feel my hits pack power. Still, I am a pessimist and I tend to mentally downgrade the power of my hits- maybe other people would call my hits powerful, but to me they are always too weak, and must always be improved.
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Gladiators, I solute you.

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#289904 - 10/04/06 12:40 PM Re: how hard CAN you hit vr how hard YOU can hit [Re: student_of_life]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
I think there is facet of punching/kicking etc that almost always needs help and that is in setting appropriate distance, maai. This is particularly problematic when there is lots of "air" punches and little 2-person contact. The result is that student are always too far away to connect.

A second problem with "air" punches is the painful surprise that a turned under wrist gives when you hit something for real.

But just to answer as best I can, I don't try to put full power into air punches. To me, this is just begging for joint problems and I have enough already.

But I AM finding that the more I practice good form in resistance punching, especially on a partner with a good vest or pad, the better I'm able to toss a relaxed functional punch without grinding my teeth and trying hard.

There are those moments when you connect a quick low power chudan "snap" that you didn't think was much, but are told by your vested training partner that, w/o the vest, it would have put him down. That's kind of cool.

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