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#289842 - 10/14/06 07:40 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Umbra_777]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Quote:

This is the truth- you can either fight or you can't. You can either draw or sing or you can't.


In order to refute this point we need look no further than the U.S. Army. Either it is possible to train people to be fighters or the Army has an amazing ability to recruit only those with natural talent.




Agreed

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#289843 - 10/14/06 08:33 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Andy44 wrote
Quote:


Hi John. Instead of getting angry and going way off topic can you direct me to any discussions on clinch work on the forum?





I don't know of a specific link to send you Andy. Clinch is grappling. Perhaps you might try the grappling forum maybe?

But Andy, are YOU being a smart-ass, lol? How often do I get angry with people here? If it weren't for some schmuck with all of 6 posts to his name zooming in here, all the way from Oblivion, I might have reacted differently. But you're not going to start your posting history sailing sh*t to me, that's just the way it is.

As for the rest of you, sail onward my brothers.


Quote:


And regards booting people off the forum well as I see it if you guys want to let off steam then others should be allowed to with in reason with out resorting to booting people off.





Again Andy, I'm sure that somewhere within your infinite wisdom, you can discern the subtle differences between "blowing off steam" and basic sh*t-talk about a person.

You know, you can BLOW as much as you want around here (and I'm sure Unsu does his share). But dialing in on a person and letting the chips fly isn't going to work - particularly with me. Especially if you're a noob. Life isn't always fair. I'm not saying he should be banned, but there is NOTHING wrong with giving someone a little fair warning. I'm not one to be triffled with.


Quote:


Chen Zen and John this is the karate forum please either discuss the topic or its deviations or start a new topic.





Then why don't YOU begin by doing so yourself instead of chaning the topic to defend Unsu?



-John

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#289844 - 10/14/06 08:44 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: JKogas]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814



John I am not defending anybody or taking sides or trying to be be a sma##t '#ss so lighten up please. He said what he said you said what you said I said what I have said and others have said what they think.
So where is the clinch training? And I thought you trained clinch? Clinch would come in to the original topic being that it is said boxers do clinch on the negative side to escape strikes where as it is said that grapplers might use the clinch for offense and defensive.
Where karate ka stand in the clinch would be I suppose for throws or fighting in clinch distance with strikes etc.

Ok speaking of kata unless we are going off topic I have been looking at some kata application from Ian aeberneathy using the heians.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/article_home.asp

Thoughts??

The initial question?
Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. How many believe and train that boxing hands are better then Karate hands in the street?

Quote from Ian aberneathy's website

The term 'guard' refers to the position in which the hands are held when fighting. There are many differing opinions on which is the 'correct' or 'best' guard position. So where should we hold our hands in order to effectively fight and defend ourselves? Should the hands be held high, as in boxing? Or should they be held lower, as in modern karate? Why all the variations? In this article I'd like to explore these questions, and in particular look at the use and evolution of the guard in karate.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/The_Karate_Guard.asp


Again thoughts any body?



Edited by ANDY44 (10/14/06 09:34 AM)

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#289845 - 10/14/06 09:29 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: JKogas]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Andy44 wrote
Quote:


John I am not defending anybody or taking sides or trying to be be a sma##t '#ss so lighten up please.





You see Andy, right there is your problem! I WAS being light-hearted when I asked if you were being a smartass. I “thought” that tone might have come across through my use of the “lol”, but I suppose not. READ, Andy! Read. Try and discern the tone of a person’s post man!


Quote:


He said what he said you said what you said I said what I have said and others have said what they think.




What is this, “Cat in the Hat?! Thanks Doctor Seuss! I’ll remember that.


Quote:


So where is the clinch training? And I thought you trained clinch?





ME?! No! I’m into hardcore STREET training man, I don’t do all that wraslin’ and stuff – it’s for p*ssies and f&gs


Quote:


Clinch would come in to the original topic being that it is said boxers do clinch on the negative side to escape strikes where as it is said that grapplers might use the clinch for offense and defensive.





I’ve heard that, yep. Maybe you should start a thread?


Quote:


Where karate ka stand in the clinch would be I suppose for throws or fighting in clinch distance with strikes etc.




Sounds pretty close to accurate. MMA guys do the same thing – from what I’ve bee told.


Quote:


Thoughts??





No thoughts at the moment Andy, I’m experiencing mushien.


-John

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#289846 - 10/14/06 09:45 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: JKogas]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814

Quote:


No thoughts at the moment Andy, I’m experiencing mushien.






Thanks John. I will try to read much much harder . specifically the humour part
After you, have had your enlightening experience with "mushien"( I prefer expereinces with the enlightened female members of our specie myself ) do you think we could discuss some of the relevant topics?
I’m not sure the boxers I know have knowledge of Zen or mushien.
I was looking at also discussing clinch work. The different aspects. There is an article on the guard what do you think John or anybody else not experiencing "mushien" at this moment in time ?






Edited by ANDY44 (10/14/06 10:11 AM)

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#289847 - 10/14/06 10:15 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: JKogas]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814


Edited by ANDY44 (10/14/06 10:17 AM)

Top
#289848 - 10/14/06 10:17 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Quote:


People can and do forget fundamentals. People can and do make mistakes. They can totally omit key basics of a sound delivery system. That doesn't make the delivery system bad -- only the fighter making use of it.

I'd still rather train with my hands up high like a boxer than at my hip - wouldn't you?












Quote from Ian aberneathy's website

The term 'guard' refers to the position in which the hands are held when fighting. There are many differing opinions on which is the 'correct' or 'best' guard position. So where should we hold our hands in order to effectively fight and defend ourselves? Should the hands be held high, as in boxing? Or should they be held lower, as in modern karate? Why all the variations? In this article I'd like to explore these questions, and in particular look at the use and evolution of the guard in karate.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/The_Karate_Guard.asp


What are your thoughts on the article?

Top
#289849 - 10/14/06 07:43 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Unsu Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 142
Loc: San Antone, Tejas

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This is the truth- you can either fight or you can't. You can either draw or sing or you can't.


In order to refute this point we need look no further than the U.S. Army. Either it is possible to train people to be fighters or the Army has an amazing ability to recruit only those with natural talent.




Agreed




Well geniuses I was in the military and I can tell you that learning tactics and strategy as applied to weapons aided fighting is not throwing hands. Even as a SpecOps guy, that SCARs crap or that Marines or Army Hodge Podge Ryu is not as valid as real karate training. It's Jack-of-all-trades junk like JKD. Journeyman tactics forever, IMO.

You can either fight or you can't. Most MAs training will NOT teach you to be a self-preservationist. It can enhance your skill-set, but 98% of the stuff out there will not prepare you for the real, MMA included. It can teach you how to fight for the sake of glory or some perverse sado-masochistic thrill, but it won't teach you to fight to save you and yours when the time counts, in everyday life.

Chen Zen- Not only have I been on this forum years before you started posting here and was busy with the kids over on KFM.online, I was the first to propose that FA.com get a "karate" forum. You're all so smart, but you have no ability to discern what's right there in front of you. How come I know exactly who everyone on all these forums is, but none can even begin to "see me". Hahaha. Get 1 clue...

Jacky Koggy- I have been on here numerous times in various guises. I changed my name twice because this site lost my info when it crashed. I got booted recently because I posted a disguised expletive just like you did when you had the nerve to call me a d-ck. Now I'm back as "Cloud Hands" laying the smack down from above. Anyway this is an anonymous forum where those who are with a clue can use their common sense to figure out who I am. I don't like you and never will. That's not a prerequisite for posting an opinion on these so-called forums. My opinion is you are a MMA bandwagoneer who has no clue as to what real karate is, but then again most karate people don't have a clue what real and good karate is. Some of us knew how to fight for decades before this whole broke NHB idea came along. Be original, bruh'.

I would love to "train" with you if I'm ever in the Hills of N.C.. Doubt that'll ever happen though. Hit me up if you're ever in a real city and state specifically San Antonio.

Yes karate guys keep their guard up. They train kata in a different manner and for different reasons. It's bigger than fighting. It's more refined than you could imagine. Which btw is all the non-karateka can do when it comes to the intent of chambering and karate training. Real karate that is, which comprises only about 5% or < of the karate out there. Real karate guys have NEVER entered the UFC (and never will), Fred Ettish and Randy Rhodes included. Japanised, fake, jiyu kunite focused schoolboy karate yes. Real fighting karate- No.

Get it, got it? Okay. Now go back to your JKD and get off the karate forum. Mediocrity refined to the normal degree, what goals people set. Bruce would not have agreed that what you do is JKD btw, because only HE did JKD. Learn about your "art" before you comment on a real MA.

Keep your hands up and don't forget to protect ya' neck. Watch it with those curse words and who you talk to like that. You don't know me, so quit being presumptuous...


Edited by Unsu (10/14/06 07:47 PM)

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#289850 - 10/14/06 08:01 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Unsu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Hi bryan "The Seer"

Top
#289851 - 10/14/06 08:23 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Ed_Morris]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


You can either fight or you can't. Most MAs training will NOT teach you to be a self-preservationist. It can enhance your skill-set, but 98% of the stuff out there will not prepare you for the real, MMA included. It can teach you how to fight for the sake of glory or some perverse sado-masochistic thrill, but it won't teach you to fight to save you and yours when the time counts, in everyday life.





So what’s your point, to just come in and tell everyone we’re full of sh*t? Feeling is mutual.


Quote:


Jacky Koggy- I have been on here numerous times in various guises. I changed my name twice because this site lost my info when it crashed. I got booted recently because I posted a disguised expletive just like you did when you had the nerve to call me a d-ck.





Wow, I had the “nerve” to call a pr*ck and pr*ck. Imagine that. I just can’t see doing anything but speaking the truth perhaps. I mean, it isn’t like your being a pr*ck is cutting edge news or anything.


Quote:


Now I'm back as "Cloud Hands" laying the smack down from above.





You could be back as “Gas Clouds from Uranus” and it won’t mean a thing nimrod. Nothing you say gives you any credibility. You simply try and speak louder and louder to be heard, yet you deafen the people from your actual message. You’re the one that should get a clue.


Quote:


I don't like you and never will.





I’m not losing a minute of sleep. But that’s good that you don’t like me. It means I’m doing something right.



Quote:


That's not a prerequisite for posting an opinion on these so-called forums. My opinion is you are a MMA bandwagoneer who has no clue as to what real karate is, but then again most karate people don't have a clue what real and good karate is. Some of us knew how to fight for decades before this whole broke NHB idea came along. Be original, bruh'.





Thanks for your opinion. My opinion is, you don’t know me well enough to make an informed opinion. You and I have never met. We’ve exchanged posts here perhaps but, you don’t honestly think you can know anyone well enough from a few posts to draw opinions do you? I mean, a person would have to be a complete FOOL to think he can do that. And I know that your ego is so freakin’ huge that you CERTAINLY wouldn’t consider yourself a fool do you?

Of course, a fool is as a fool does. In this case, that’s thinking you can draw an opinion of me from an internet forum. A simple, little, anonymous forum. Yet you are doing just that! So, you do the math there fella.


Quote:


I would love to "train" with you if I'm ever in the Hills of N.C.. Doubt that'll ever happen though. Hit me up if you're ever in a real city and state specifically San Antonio.




The Crucible Gym
5940 Germanton Rd
Winston-Salem, NC
27105

You’re welcome anytime. Be there or be square. Now…what was your address again???



Quote:


Real karate that is, which comprises only about 5% or < of the karate out there.





Which is (I’m certain) what YOU just happen to be practicing, of course. You are one of those “few”.


Quote:


Real karate guys have NEVER entered the UFC (and never will), Fred Ettish and Randy Rhodes included. Japanised, fake, jiyu kunite focused schoolboy karate yes. Real fighting karate- No.





I’m sorry, but that’s the lamest thing I’ve ever heard. He’d have sang a different song had some actual karate guys won a few of those fights. Seeing as how they DIDN’T, of course he’s going to say that. What else would anyone really expect?

By the way, I never realized that Ozzy Osbourne's guitarist fought in the UFC?? Did anyone else realize that?


Quote:


Get it, got it? Okay. Now go back to your JKD and get off the karate forum. Mediocrity refined to the normal degree, what goals people set. Bruce would not have agreed that what you do is JKD btw, because only HE did JKD. Learn about your "art" before you comment on a real MA.





Your momma.

And I have bro. I’ve been around for a while. But you know, all this “talk” is just that – talk. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, that's all you ever do....without actually EVER saying anything in the process. You just spout the same circular rhetoric over and over and over and over…

Quote:

Keep your hands up and don't forget to protect ya' neck.





Thanks for that advice old man. Where did you happen to come by such “advanced” informashun?!??!??!??!?! Did they teach ya that in tha MILITARY??!? Wow, you must be like GI Joe or something. I can just picture all of those jarheads doing kata.



P*ssoff,

-John

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