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#289812 - 10/08/06 05:29 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
the way it was explained to me the "circumstance" is most definately NOT fixed. but open to interperetation (sp?)
i think boxing is allot faster though to teach someone how to "fight"
i guess i kind of have mixed feelings about kata. i do think they are fascinating though, who would think to see a finger lock when watching someone perform a down block, for example. learning how to use the techniques contained in kata is another ballgame altogether. one that boxing takes into consideration from day one and does not separate into parts...ie...basics...kata...one steps...kumite.
_________________________
you can do anything you want to...you just cant always do it alone
to ask is a moments shame, not to ask, and remain ignorant is a lifelong shame

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#289813 - 10/08/06 10:54 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Kempo_jujitsu wrote
Quote:

the way it was explained to me the "circumstance" is most definately NOT fixed. but open to interperetation (sp?)





It might as well be, considering that itís all imaginary. But thatís the point - itís all imaginary. It wouldnít matter anyway because the footwork and technique are fixed. What point does it matter if the circumstance is different? Thatís the least important aspect.


Quote:


i think boxing is allot faster though to teach someone how to "fight"




And if thatís the bottom line (and I believe it is for the vast majority of folks), thatís where you should place your focus -- on the fastest development of skill possible. I mean, why on earth would you want to actually DELAY your progress??


Quote:


i guess i kind of have mixed feelings about kata. i do think they are fascinating though, who would think to see a finger lock when watching someone perform a down block, for example. learning how to use the techniques contained in kata is another ballgame altogether. one that boxing takes into consideration from day one and does not separate into parts...ie...basics...kata...one steps...kumite.





Ya know, Iíve done kata. It isnít like I havenít had any experience with it. I just realized early on that the whole purpose for kata was to string people along. Thatís not just my opinion, but the opinion of many others.

You gotta figure man, if there is no fighting skill to be derived, itís purpose must be for something else. Indeed.



-John

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#289814 - 10/09/06 01:48 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: JKogas]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:




on that the whole purpose for kata was to string people along. Thatís not just my opinion, but the opinion of many others.





I would have agreed with you on that one before I started to re study Kata.

Quote:


You gotta figure man, if there is no fighting skill to be derived, itís purpose must be for something else. Indeed.





Hi John.
My thougths on your point.

From the little of the pinans that I have re studied I think there are usable fighting skills in the katas. Some techniques I have tried out in sparring and some I havent tried because I am still in the working the technique by repetition stage. How ever from observations of one specific technique the problem would seem to be the Masters seem to have got it right.I think it is a Brilliant technique. The 4th 5th dans etcs upwards (They are in affiliation with the Masters) who are meant to train as per the masters wishes etc changed it so that the technique leaves the defender open to direct counters . Then after that whatever the lower ranks do with it is anybodies guess.
So down to the individual again.





Edited by ANDY44 (10/09/06 02:03 PM)

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#289815 - 10/09/06 01:51 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

the way it was explained to me the "circumstance" is most definately NOT fixed. but open to interperetation (sp?)





SP?

I believe interpretation of kata is of little use if the interpretation doesnt work. I wouldnt now practice something I thought wouldnt work. No point. If it would work then yes.


Edited by ANDY44 (10/09/06 01:55 PM)

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#289816 - 10/09/06 01:59 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Lotty dotty everybody,

Let's get off the whole kata arguement,it's not what this thread is about anyways. There's no reason to continually defend kata in the KARATE forum.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#289817 - 10/09/06 02:06 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: BrianS]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
agreed Brian,

Lets stick to the topics good people,

simply start fresh threads if you want to. (and if it's kata bashing we can delete them )
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#289818 - 10/09/06 07:10 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: shoshinkan]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I think that kata has a lot to do with the answer to the original question. It certainly had some influence on my decision anyways. It was the reason I chose the boxer over the karateka.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#289819 - 10/09/06 09:39 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
jkogas, i pretty much agree with you for my personal goals. i voted for the boxer for allot of reasons alraedy stated by everyone here. i think the answer really should be to train like a boxer, no matter what art you do. take your art, and do it "alive" as you would say. at least partially...i mean if you wanna swim, you gotta get in the water right?
on the other hand i do think kata do have a wealth of things to teach. yet, i also dont think they can teach you anything a man/woman, or just plain experience couldnt teach you faster. why not just cut to the chase and teach me what it is you want me to learn? i'm sure its good for getting students to learn on their own and what not ...i suppose.
id like to learn more about kata before deciding either way whether or not i like it.
i have done them in tkd, but it was nothing but sport, with no (even bad) applications of the movements at all. and i noticed i developed allot of bad muscle memory, and it was hard not to drop my 'retracting' (if you will) hand when i punched with the other. i guess all people are different though in their preferences. thats a great thing.
_________________________
you can do anything you want to...you just cant always do it alone
to ask is a moments shame, not to ask, and remain ignorant is a lifelong shame

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#289820 - 10/09/06 11:31 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas

Chen,
I can see where that would influence your answer because of the training time you put into it,but then it turned to the what good is kata thread. That is not what this thread is about,originally.

If you guys want to continually argue about it,go ahead,knock your socks off,sheesh.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#289821 - 10/10/06 12:32 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: BrianS]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I just like to bust your chops on the whole thing, what with you being karateka and all.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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