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#289772 - 10/01/06 07:12 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: JKogas]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Quote:

Stop press...JKogas says something positive about karate...

"..or potential (karate has advantage)."







Lets not get TOO excited. The definition of "potential" is: "Capable of being but not yet in existence". The "not yet in existence" part, you might want to pay attention to.


Quote:


The argument for boxing is centered around the idea that the majority of training is more realistic in terms of contact. However it is not that realistic to practice punching (no matter how hard) with your hands all neatly wrapped up and protected by big cushions.





So what you are basically saying is that after the boxer knocks the karateka's nose through the back of his skull, he'll have to deal with a broken hand.

I can accept that. It's a fight. You deal with any injuries afterward. However, it doesn't have to mean broken hands or injuries.


Quote:


I personally know of a couple of boxers that have smashed their hands to pieces in real fights because of poor alignment and fist formation. Something that is taught very early on in any decent karate club.





Ah yes, the "karateka" is taught how to properly align the fist structure. What they are often NOT taught is how to properly defend from having that poorly aligned fist from crashing through their p.iss poor defensive structure, where it then proceeds to realign their FACIAL structure.

THAT is taught early on in any decent boxing gym.






-John



I still say that
I dont think it can be said that one is better than the other for use in the street. The training in karate and boxing benefit each other. Maybe if both were trained?

Even though that was a few hours ago. John you certainly have a way of making a debate interesting.

I am waiting for the karate ka response to come up with a defensive strategy against a boxer . I do train both so I am sitting on the fence. I think this might get to be interesting



Ding Ding round 2!


Edited by ANDY44 (10/01/06 07:14 PM)

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#289773 - 10/01/06 07:58 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
since you are versatile and have high standards, I'd actually be interested in hearing YOUR strategy, Andy. what was the famous line from Tyson..."Everyone has a plan until they get hit."

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#289774 - 10/01/06 09:42 PM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Ed_Morris]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
John,

The "Theres been an accident" Line....
Man you dropped it on em there bro.

I voted for boxing because of the training differences as well. Also for time spent training. Your average karateka is in the gym once maybe twice a week.

I think the karateka has the tools to pull it off, but not the training to use them to their full advantage against a boxer.

Take the defensive shell of a boxer. Its going to be hard to slip in any kind of nerve strikes, eye gouges, chops, or grabs anywhere above the waist. Now, put them on the street, with all of their tools available, and It would be fifty fifty as to who Id put my money on. Id have to see the fighters. But most likely, its the boxer.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#289775 - 10/02/06 03:53 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Ed_Morris]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814


Edited by ANDY44 (10/02/06 03:55 AM)

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#289776 - 10/02/06 03:54 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Ed_Morris]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814


Quote:


since you are versatile and have high standards, I'd actually be interested in hearing YOUR strategy, Andy. what was the famous line from MIKE TYSON.."Everyone has a plan until they get hit."






I did try to start a debate on another thread although the boxer pulling the head back could also be a karate ka

Quote:


Backwards, strangely enough. I don't know how he does it but if you watch a few of his matches frame-by-frame, you'll often see him at one point with his opponent's fist apparently in his face and the next frame, his opponent's fist on his chest. He somehow manages to move his head backwards 4-5 inches in a single frame. Punches which would have floored most other fighters I know hit nothing but air when used on him. It's like someone's pulling him backwards by his head, I compare it to the idea of the "whip punch" which was being discussed earlier. He throws his entire body backwards by his head and it appears to be quite effective. I certainly couldn't manage that, he must have had incredible reflexes to pull it off.







Quote:


In boxing I think that just to pull the head straight back and away from a punch against a boxer who is good at body punching and throwing hooks might not be the best idea. Also moving back in a straight line with out straight punching is another defence that might go against a boxer in a ring..







Ok Ed. To answer your question
I think it is down to the individual and the techniques the individual can use. Just because certain techniques are present and are practiced doesn’t mean that individual will use them under pressure. If I did debate such topics it is would be based on looking for general mistakes made by either karate ka or a boxer or any fighter for that matter.
Not anything thought to be specific to a certain style.
Here are some .

Most fighters dont keep their chins down.Fine by me. Keep doing it.

Some fighters hit with the wrong part of their hands then complain or say it happens.

Again fine by me.

Some fighter have crap fitness
Again fine by me.



Edited by BrianS (10/03/06 12:21 PM)

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#289777 - 10/02/06 04:21 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Chen Zen]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:


Take the defensive shell of a boxer. Its going to be hard to slip in any kind of nerve strikes, eye gouges, chops, or grabs anywhere above the waist. Now, put them on the street, with all of their tools available, and It would be fifty fifty as to who Id put my money on. Id have to see the fighters. But most likely, its the boxer.




Depends on how either fighter can use their defence and strikes.
Quote:


I voted for boxing because of the training differences as well. Also for time spent training. Your average karateka is in the gym once maybe twice a week.:-[






I know boxers that only train twice a week I know karate ka that train 5 times a week. It is down to the individual.


Edited by ANDY44 (10/02/06 04:34 AM)

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#289778 - 10/03/06 12:03 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
Spade Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 255
Loc: Auburn, Al.
Anyone see the Chuck Liddell Vs Tito Ortize fight?


Notice how Ortize blocked Chucks punches? Neither did I.


In karate you are taught to block without boxing gloves.

In boxing, you either bob/weave or put your forearms over your chest with your gloves infront of your face.

I had a boxer once tell me "You would never find an opponening on me, I'm a boxer!" and he put his hands infront of his head as he bobbed back and forth, at which point I saw three openings to his head.

Not many boxers are trained to use a knife hand strike, or an upper cut to the throat, for that reason alone I put Karate over boxing.

Will boxers hit harder? Yes, but without boxing gloves (in my experince) they don't know what to do other then to move their head around in hopes of not getting hit.

Karate practioners will be able to preform blocks/parrys leaving an oppening for a counter hit, where a boxer would just cover up and take a blow.

_________________________
"always paddle your own canoe." - Cord

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#289779 - 10/03/06 02:51 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Ed_Morris]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

since you are versatile and have high standards, I'd actually be interested in hearing YOUR strategy, Andy. what was the famous line from Tyson..."Everyone has a plan until they get hit."





Mike Tyson. Great boxer.
Yeah Buster Douglas agreed with him.
Then after that it was etc etc

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#289780 - 10/03/06 03:09 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: Spade]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Anyone see the Chuck Liddell Vs Tito Ortize fight?


Notice how Ortize blocked Chucks punches? Neither did I.


In karate you are taught to block without boxing gloves.

In boxing, you either bob/weave or put your forearms over your chest with your gloves infront of your face.

I had a boxer once tell me "You would never find an opponening on me, I'm a boxer!" and he put his hands infront of his head as he bobbed back and forth, at which point I saw three openings to his head.

Not many boxers are trained to use a knife hand strike, or an upper cut to the throat, for that reason alone I put Karate over boxing.

Will boxers hit harder? Yes, but without boxing gloves (in my experince) they don't know what to do other then to move their head around in hopes of not getting hit.

Karate practioners will be able to preform blocks/parrys leaving an oppening for a counter hit, where a boxer would just cover up and take a blow.







http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3451193314984597656&q=Chuck+Liddell

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#289781 - 10/03/06 03:16 AM Re: Boxing hands better the Karate hands poll. [Re: ANDY44]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:


Ah yes, the "karateka" is taught how to properly align the fist structure. What they are often NOT taught is how to properly defend from having that poorly aligned fist from crashing through their p.iss poor defensive structure, where it then proceeds to realign their FACIAL structure.

THAT is taught early on in any decent boxing gym.







Still say is down to the fighter, the individual, to work on their defence. Not styles. Like as in this guy? Not sure he did karate John?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3451193314984597656&q=Chuck+Liddell


Edited by ANDY44 (10/03/06 03:20 AM)

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