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#289535 - 09/28/06 09:37 AM beat me hurt me
kensai1 Offline

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
now that i have gotten your attention, what do you guys think of sensei using objects to correct your training.

in cuong nhu my sensei would wack you with a long rattan stick to correct stances and punches. this was when i was 9yrs old. this was back in the mid 70s.

in kenkojuku my sensei taught me a lesson about not tightening my stomach when taking me a blow. he punched me after 3 classes till i got that lesson. plus when our head instructor would come up from miami if you were not pushing yourself hard enough he would punish black belts by making you doing 100 situps while having your legs straight. i was 18 at the time.

in shorin ryu my sensei would use a shinai to wack us on the arms and legs to correct our stances and also hold a canvas makiwara and shove it into our fists as we punched. i was 20 at the time.

my experience is that not all schools do this, the jka shotokan does not do this nor did the shotokan school in las vegas use these methods. now i am not permanately scarred from these lessons. going airborne infantry was much tougher.

just wanted to get a idea if anyone of you experienced this kind of training and if you think its bad for you besides now a days getting sued. everyone likes to sue in the states

i do not teach this way but who knows maybe it made me a better ma and maybe i like pain a little bit.

First Degree White Belt

#289536 - 09/28/06 09:46 AM Re: beat me hurt me [Re: kensai1]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Sounds like the MA training my husband received in the Army...replete with a mean Asian teacher and liberal use of a 'zactu' stick. (sorry...know that is the wrong name but can't recall the correct one right now)

People actually pay for this kind of instruction?

#289537 - 09/28/06 09:50 AM Re: beat me hurt me [Re: kensai1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
what do I think of it? it's unecessary. even dogs can learn tricks without hitting them.

#289538 - 09/28/06 10:08 AM Re: beat me hurt me [Re: kensai1]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884

Many people have asked that the Zen custom of the kyosaku be explained. The kyosaku is a blow given to both shoulders with the light wooden stick (the stick of compassion) carried by a Zen priest or disciple during zazen (seated meditation). The kyosaku is given during the zazen sessions when one feels oneself becoming drowsy or is having difficulty concentrating. The kyosaku is given only to those who request it, is not painful, and is very beneficial in clearing the mind and in making meditation more meaningful.

To signal the attendant carrying the kyosaku that you want to receive it, you make the gassho: place the plams of your hands together at the level of your chin and bow your head slightly in a respectful manner. Upon seeing this sign, the attendant will come up behind you, bow, and tap your right shoulder twice lightly with the kyosaku to let you know that he/she is about to give you the blow. You then bend your neck and head to the left so that your right shoulder may be struck without obstruction. After the kyosaku has been administered to the right shoulder, lean your head to the right and the kyosaku will be given to the left shoulder. It is proper to gassho and bow once more after receiving the kyosaku to show your gratitude for it. The attendant will do the same behind you, in respect for the effort that you are making.

It is important to understand that the kyosaku is not a form of punishment, but should be considered an aid to your meditation. It is administered only at your request and is given solely for your benefit -- it should correct your posture, clear your mind, and be an excellent form of self-discipline. If you feel the need for the kyosaku, please do not hesitate to take advantage of it.

#289539 - 09/28/06 12:45 PM Re: beat me hurt me [Re: kensai1]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Good reference Oldman. In the old days, this concept was "modified" for MA possibly by militaristic pre-war Japanese. Then when Americans & other foreigners were introduced to it, they managed to "modify" the concept/practice again. Another example of cultural misinterpretation & corruption.

The practice is meant to strengthen yourself internally (mentally), to persevere, to push yourself beyond pre-set limitations. It is not meant to be a beating/punishment. That's the foreign misapplication.

In the '70's, my (Japanese) sensei used a shinnai but it was never used in anger or to induce fear or pain. That's just plain sadistic.



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