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#288737 - 09/26/06 05:52 AM Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
There must be a contest to see who puts the last video record of the arts out on the nets.

If we want to talk Crane, Matayoshi Shimpo is the man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=encHYcCQgxc&mode=related&search=
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#288738 - 09/26/06 07:38 AM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: Victor Smith]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
..just wait till the flood of 'channan' kata videos hit the market.

see, they've got smarter - since it's channan (a lost kata), people don't have anyone legitimate on film to compare to. When they made the crane videos, they only looked at an aging H. Soken and forgot about Matayoshi.

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#288739 - 09/26/06 08:27 AM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: Ed_Morris]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Hi Ed,

Of course in fairness, Matayoshi's crane lineage is different from Soken's.

As for Channan, there are already plenty of 'lost' kata cropping up everyplace. Kanazawa Sensei reportedly is selling video of an old Okinawan crane from he once studied.

The key for all kata is do they really express an underlying body usage to support the form. Many of the lost forms haven't come from sources where the instructor spent decades on the form themselves, and a large something remains lost, IMO.
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#288740 - 09/26/06 08:29 AM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I love watching Matayoshi. Thank you, Victor.

There is a saying, that Matayoshi was a 'quietly revered Goju man'. I see the little bits, here and there, of his family style, the crane stuff, and the more 'Chinese' style of Goju...and I think that he really 'knew'.

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#288741 - 09/26/06 04:51 PM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: harlan]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
His father, Shinko Matayoshi was a good friend of Miyagi Chojun. They once did a dmonstration together for the Japanese crown prince I think.
Shinpo Matayoshi learned his hakutsuru kata (2) from Gokenki. His link with Goju is also with the dojo where he instructed when he returned from Japan to Okinawa. It was in the dojo of Seko Higa (student of Higashiaonna and of Miyagi, one on of the only 3 people to ever get a teaching licence from Miyagi concerning goju-ryu kenpo).
Matayoshi however has never thaught goju-ryu. There is refernce to the Matayoshi family karate style as kingai-ryu but I think this is only a partial story to their family style. His father learned in China a fighting style either from a man called Kingai or the style was nominated kingai in Chinese, do not know the exact story anymore.
There is a good DVD from 'rising sun productions' (www.risingsunproductions.net). The video extract at the start of this thread comes from there.

I know he thaught his hakutsuru to some students. My first kobudo teacher learned from Kenyu Chinen (lives in France) who learned from Matayoshi. Although I never realy studied the hakutsuru kata I remember that in the beginning sequence, the whipping open hand strikes were done with the fingertips, not in a nukite (spear hand) but in a rather loose way, like striking of the feathers of a wing. It is the ultimate soft technique.
When you look at the Alexander kata, it seems not soft enough.

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#288742 - 09/27/06 08:20 AM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: CVV]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
cvv,

I'm in total agreement with you.

One of my friends, from Cambridge, Mass. USA, trained with Matayoshi Sensei and does a spectular Hakutsuru kata.

The Matayoshi empty hand arts are most definately from Chinese origins, for I've seen the video tapes you reference.

But I think his kobudo forms are more well known.

pleasantly,
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#288743 - 10/03/06 08:36 PM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: Victor Smith]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Quote:

cvv,

I'm in total agreement with you.

One of my friends, from Cambridge, Mass. USA, trained with Matayoshi Sensei and does a spectular Hakutsuru kata.

The Matayoshi empty hand arts are most definately from Chinese origins, for I've seen the video tapes you reference.

But I think his kobudo forms are more well known.

pleasantly,




Didn't Matayoshi's progenitor's train in Kingai-ryu, a "sister" style to Pangai Noon ryu? (That's what mark Bishop's book says, I think). Would there be a crane connection here?
_________________________
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#288744 - 10/03/06 08:45 PM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: Mark Hill]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I've been told by my teacher that the tapes differ slightly from what Matayoshi 'showed' to individuals. I've asked about learning Kingai, Matayoshi family style before. I would certainly like to know who teaches it.

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#288745 - 10/03/06 11:18 PM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I'm really only 3rd or 4th hand about Matayoshi, but as I understand it for almost all (if not all) public performances he would change his form(s), so no one could 'get it'.

Old style,
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#288746 - 10/04/06 02:06 AM Re: Matayoshi 1 Alexander 0 [Re: Victor Smith]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
...and I hear (2nd hand) he often had a sense of humor about it...which, you know I can respect greatly.

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