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#287937 - 09/23/06 08:26 PM On fighting.
MRKARATE Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Fl., USA
Hey, what's up guys. I wanted to know your guys opinion on fighting as far as tournament and dojo. I know alot of dojos don't compete in tournaments for whatever reason and alot do b/c they say it makes you a better fighter b/c of the variety of ppl you are able to fight. But I wanted know if that was true. Because if you think about it, you train in the dojo for the tournament so it's obvious that your getting good at the dojo. I just want to know b/c i want to compete in knock down and know if it was really worth it.
_________________________
The devil's in the details..

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#287938 - 09/23/06 08:28 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
You know why sparring and competition can be so valuable? Because you gain EXPERIENCE. How else are you going to gain experience short of going out and picking fights?

Does that answer your question?


-John

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#287939 - 09/23/06 08:34 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: JKogas]
MRKARATE Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Fl., USA
no. what i mean is, is competition really worth it or am i better just training in the dojo(s). competition has alot of hype and crooked-ness(probably not a word). but that's seems to be the only way to go (if your mind is set on competing). for instance in knockdown, the tournaments are hard, you fight ppl from around the state/nation/world. but as everyone knows, some of them are rigged i.e. andy hug, charles martin, willie williams (aka bearkiller lol). if you think about kyokushin back in the day i.e. tadashi nakamura, he competed but he became the way he was b/c of his dojo experience(s) more than his competing.
_________________________
The devil's in the details..

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#287940 - 09/23/06 09:19 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

no. what i mean is, is competition really worth it or am i better just training in the dojo(s).





It doesn't answer your question.....

I'd mentioned the little thing about experience being a valuable asset and, this doesn't answer your question....

Ok. What the hell do you want anyone to SAY then if THAT DOESN'T do it?

What you are in a sense asking me is, "is gaining EXPERIENCE 'worth it'"?

The answer to THAT lies within your own brain! YOU are the SOLE person responsible for coming to a conclusion here!

Is it "worth it"? What, are you just looking for OPINIONS? That is essentially what you're asking for. Thing about that is, opinions vary. Wouldn't it be the intelligent thing to FORM YOUR OWN?!

Or maybe you want to be "spoon fed" all of the answers to life's tough questions?


-John

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#287941 - 09/23/06 09:56 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
MRKARATE -

I get what you are saying about tournaments. The politics and outright cheating can be very frustrating - if you give a damn.

You can still go for the "experience" of competing with unfamiliar students from unfamiliar schools. You might learn something or meet some new friends. Politics can only get to you if you let it.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#287942 - 09/23/06 10:02 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: JKogas]
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
yes its worth it. simply because u have to dodge attacks that are actually coming at u from a moving person. in the dojo, you can get that, but youre fighting your own style all the time, and get used to the same ppl all the time.
_________________________
you can do anything you want to...you just cant always do it alone
to ask is a moments shame, not to ask, and remain ignorant is a lifelong shame

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#287943 - 09/23/06 11:08 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

no. what i mean is, is competition really worth it or am i better just training in the dojo(s). competition has alot of hype and crooked-ness(probably not a word). but that's seems to be the only way to go (if your mind is set on competing). for instance in knockdown, the tournaments are hard, you fight ppl from around the state/nation/world. but as everyone knows, some of them are rigged i.e. andy hug, charles martin, willie williams (aka bearkiller lol). if you think about kyokushin back in the day i.e. tadashi nakamura, he competed but he became the way he was b/c of his dojo experience(s) more than his competing.





Andy Hug isnt alive anymore.

Where does the fight rigging come in?


Edited by ANDY44 (09/23/06 11:14 PM)

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#287944 - 09/24/06 08:14 AM Re: On fighting. [Re: MattJ]
MRKARATE Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Fl., USA
hey sorry if i sounded rude.. it's hard to express through a computer lol. i know the experience is valuable (i had already known that) but that's exactly what i mean. do you get more experience from the dojo or the outside competing world. you have to prepare in a dojo for the outside right? And about the andy hug thing....that was just an example of how someone got screwed over...
_________________________
The devil's in the details..

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#287945 - 09/24/06 09:44 AM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Fighting people you are not familiar with, helps you to gain good reflexes and test your fighting skill.
However the familiar training environment is the place to prepare to such an encounter. I have a lot of respect for people entering the knock-down circuit and finding a good trainer and good sparring partners is already half the preparation.
I do not know if you have skill categories like in most european MT or kickbox/K1 categories (C-class B-class A-class). You could try to play sparring partner for regular competitors in a class higher than yourselve to gain some extra experience in fighting technique and speed.
Putting yourselve to the test in tournament is a must to get better at tournament fighting and has merrit in overall fighting experience.
But do not neglect the basics. Basics need to be trained more then everything else and you best do that with people that know you and can push you further.
Ultimately, it's a mix of both I think. Not so much the competition but to gain experience by sparring/competing people unfamiliar with the intent to push your limit as well as getting your skill tested in a controlled environment will benefit you i.m.o. To achieve that, you must train the basics in a familiar environment.

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#287946 - 09/24/06 12:53 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
Steel91 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 451
Loc: Alabama
Yea, it can help gain experience but you don't wanna be a tournement addict because most of the stuff is light contact patty cake crap. So unless you wanna do that, then only go to a couple of them for the experience. But if wanna compete in full contact, that's a different story because full contact is more realistic.
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.

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#287947 - 09/25/06 01:18 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
As it was mentioned gaining experince and basic skills take time regular tournament can help here, but rules changes the encounter. I'd enroll in a full contact school that stressed that kind of sparring if I wanted to do full contact sparring. Your skills and technique will be adjusted for that type training and competition.

So no you don't learn more outside the dojo rather then in the dojo, until you learn something while training inside the dojo. Sparring unfamilar systems and methods outside or inside the dojo helps gain further expereince. But its safer inside the dojo where some kind control is mandatory.

Sparring outside the dojo is a risk and should only happen when you have confidence in your partners and all know what level you all want to train at. Getting knocked out by superior fighters early in your training isn't going to teach you anything, except make you punch/fight shy!!! Go slow and learn well that will help/save you, this is done inside a dojo under a good Sensei 1st.

Just my 2 cent.


Edited by Neko456 (09/25/06 01:23 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#287948 - 09/25/06 08:16 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: Neko456]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
for me tournament fighting did not make me a better fighter, but for some people maybe it will. I personally do not like tournaments. in my first 10 years of karate-do training our dojo did not do tournaments. the best jiyu kumite i was involved in was when i would visit different karate schools or karate camp twice a year. my first tournament was when i trained in shorin-ryu and the tournament was the all open VA. tournament. no pads,leg sweeps and head shots were allowed. i placed 2nd in the blackbelt division and lost first place to an experienced tournament fighter that trained in kyokushinkai. even though my techniques were clean and controlled i lost because not all judges could see my points. needless to say i got a lot of half points. not bad for my very first tournament and to spar against seasoned fighters. sorry for the ramble or story. we are molded by hard we train and those that push us past our limits. fighting spirit comes from the heart not by training for points. i did enjoy the tournaments but it did not make me a better fighter.

mike
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#287949 - 10/16/06 11:51 PM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
yamaguchi Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 32
Loc: mississauga, Ontario, Canada
I believe that sparring in tournaments can be useful experience, but i do not believe it is necissary if you have a good dojo then you will learn everything you need to know in the dojo and do not need to go out and compete, so to me it just really matters whether or not you like competing, for me i dont compete i used to and i would actually do pretty good but for me i didnt find any value in it i found all the real value from what i was learning at the dojo but that just varies from person to person......this is just my opinion
_________________________
"Take the lesson and throw away the experience" -Hanshi Wallace Platt

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#287950 - 10/17/06 12:11 AM Re: On fighting. [Re: MRKARATE]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
well, lets see...how many hours/weeks/months of training do you do prior to a 30 minute competition?

I'd take the dojo/gym experience.

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