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#287913 - 09/23/06 05:02 PM Serious technique question
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
How do I NOT get guillotine chokes when I go for double and single leg take downs?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#287914 - 09/23/06 08:04 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
By coming in with your head UP! Your head should be over your hips and you should never be looking down. Also, make certain to maintain a good bullneck/turtle neck.

You can also shoot the double with your head up and in the center chest area (think about the Zidane headbutt from the World Cup). That tends to work for me.

I have also found that if you finish the double by moving laterally and bypassing the guard, it won't matter if they have a guillotine or not.

Then when all else fails, learn to counter the guillotine. Its pretty simple.

Have your partners do nothing but pull guard and try to get guillotines while you shoot your takedowns. Isolate your training this way and get a lot of reps in. Eventually you will learn to set up your shots so this doesn't happen.

Or, go for a good clinch and take your opponent down from there. You'll often avoid the situation entirely from that method.


-John

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#287915 - 09/23/06 08:12 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: JKogas]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
John knows his stuff. Keep the head up and when you come in on your opponent make sure that you bring yourself lower to your opponent by squating down, not bending over, keeping your head up against their side (or chest like John suggested), and then stand up straight, still keeping your head up. This way you can go for your single or double leg take down or trip them, sweep them, spin around to their back, hip toss, etc.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#287916 - 09/23/06 09:06 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by JKogas -

Quote:

I have also found that if you finish the double by moving laterally and bypassing the guard, it won't matter if they have a guillotine or not.




Ditto. I usually try to go right into side control, so I can twist out of any headlock or guillotine. Has worked pretty well so far.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#287917 - 09/24/06 06:56 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: MattJ]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Alright i'll try that. I do have a bad habit of keeping my head down.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#287918 - 09/24/06 07:32 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: JKogas]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Okay all you grapplers time to sprinkle some knowledge on this stand up fighter.

I'm interested in the single leg take downs. That is the approach I use to try and get leg locks.

What I do is I lean forward and attack my opponents thigh just above the knee with my forarm and elbow to knock him down.

Now in practice when my instructor demonstrates this, he stays on his feet, however, I have tried it in a more realistic type scenerio by having my partner use resistance and movement. When I shoot down for the attack, I cant keep my balance and I fall down with my partner which is okay because I am far from being put into a choke.

Now my question is, is this technique actually effective, because when I attack the lower thigh above the knee, I also pull behind the cav muscle to get the push pull action. So I can pull off an ankle or leg lock.

In practice I cannot attack the target hard for fear of injuring my partner, but at the same time, I dont really know if this would work. I've done the technique twice on my brother when we were fighting. And from what he told me, he says he was actually stunned by the elbow to the lower thigh and when I brought him down I was able to pull an ankle lock on him.

But would this approach work on someone who was more of an expert in grappling? Or on someone who was really pi$$ed off and wanted to do serious inury to me? I know my ankle and leg locks work, but would my take down work?

The people I practice with tell me yes, but I'm just not sure, perhaps some of you more experience grapplers have a safer way of practicing this?

I hope you understood the scenerio, I tend to be wordy when I type.

By the way, when I go for the single leg take down, I manage to stay on my knees, while maintaining hold of the leg. I just fall back on my rear to apply the lock.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#287919 - 09/24/06 08:25 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: TeK9]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Tek9,

Lets just say that (if I am understanding your technique right) there are other variations of single legs that I would opt for first. The method you describe isn't one that I see often used with wrestlers. The methods they use tend to be the more "high percentage" when it comes to takedowns.

It seems that if your method fails, you'd be left in a really bad position. Against a good fighter that's suicide.


-John

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#287920 - 09/25/06 01:05 AM Re: Serious technique question [Re: JKogas]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

It seems that if your method fails, you'd be left in a really bad position. Against a good fighter that's suicide.




Possible repeated elbows to the top of your head????
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#287921 - 09/25/06 03:32 AM Re: Serious technique question [Re: TeK9]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
I wouldn't fall back to get an ankle lock, you're giving up position for a move that most likely won't break anything. If you're doing a heel hook make sure you're really good at it.

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#287922 - 09/29/06 03:41 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: Stormdragon]
Gula Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 78
Aye! Head up and remember to look forward. Many, myself included , some times have a bad habit of turning your head away right before/when you grab the leg. You do this and you will not get full power and will get t3h cross face.

One variation I like to use when I dont seem to get the man down is just brutal tackling the front leg with all power. In this you dont have to bull the neck and look up.
It wont get you in a very good position but the game will go to the ground.
_________________________
No Brain, No Pain!

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#287923 - 02/02/07 02:05 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: Gula]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Tek,

I saw that same technique used in an old JKD magazine i had. I wouldnt use it myself, but I tend to go for the double leg anyways.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#287924 - 02/05/07 02:31 PM Re: Serious technique question [Re: Stormdragon]
Leonine Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 191
Well for me when I do it, I either keep my chin locked to my outside shoulder so that when they go for it, they wind up getting my shoulder too, very easy to get out of.
In the heat of battle I sometimes put my head across their body and either push them forward or lift them over my shoulder.
I've never tried head up, but it makes sense, I think I'll give that a drill.

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