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#287354 - 10/12/06 05:23 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Leo_E_49]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
It doesnt matter what wilkapedia says. I have been at the gym and have watched people twice my size with bulging muscles unable to bench what I can bench. If you have watched a lot of olympic lifting or powerlifting, i think it is very obvious at the difference of their body type as opposed to the type of bodies that bodylbuilders have. Alot of strength has to do with central nervous system and how it effects muscle contraction.
A good example of how size of muscles has little to do with strenght or muscular endurance. Where I work we have a guy who is one of the types who always has his sleeves rolled up, has the old fashined "farmer's walk" always trying to show of his guns, when we were doing our PT test for our responce team, the man could barely even do the required number of push ups, needing to constantly rest his chest on the ground between reps. It was pethetic, yet he "looks strong" because he has big muscles. No goiod to have big guns if they only shoot blanks

I never said shorter peoiple can lift more as a rule, symply that there are a vast number of powerlifters who are quite small by bodybulder standards yet I would bet on the smaller powerlifter in terms of strength anyday.

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#287355 - 10/12/06 06:07 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Glockmeister]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

It doesnt matter what wilkapedia says. I have been at the gym and have watched people twice my size with bulging muscles unable to bench what I can bench.




Sure, let's not trust wikipedia, how about if I reference you to Human Anatomy and Physiology by Tortura and Derrickson, they both pose the same answer to your suggestion that I do. What you've seen in your own experience may not be representative of general human experience. Please provide a reference other than your own anecdotal experience to prove what you are saying is true in most cases.

Quote:

If you have watched a lot of olympic lifting or powerlifting, i think it is very obvious at the difference of their body type as opposed to the type of bodies that bodylbuilders have. Alot of strength has to do with central nervous system and how it effects muscle contraction.




Absolutely, this is a very important factor in muscular strength, as I said before. However, it is not the only factor relating to muscular strength, and muscle mass is another factor affecting strength.

Quote:

A good example of how size of muscles has little to do with strenght or muscular endurance. Where I work we have a guy who is one of the types who always has his sleeves rolled up, has the old fashined "farmer's walk" always trying to show of his guns, when we were doing our PT test for our responce team, the man could barely even do the required number of push ups, needing to constantly rest his chest on the ground between reps.




It is possible that the guy has a large concentration of fast twitch muscle, rather than slow twitch muscle, resulting in greater power but less endurance. Hence, he would be a better power lifter but worse at endurance exercises such as walking with kettle bells or large numbers of repetitions of push ups.

Quote:

It was pethetic, yet he "looks strong" because he has big muscles. No goiod to have big guns if they only shoot blanks




Absolutely, non-functional development of muscles is contrary to the purposes of cultivating strength. You can train your muscles to isolate them for the purposes of body building asthetic or for strength, however, this has the same effect whether a person is large or small. Except that a larger person has the advantage of their frame holding potentially more muscle mass.

Quote:

I never said shorter peoiple can lift more as a rule, symply that there are a vast number of powerlifters who are quite small by bodybulder standards yet I would bet on the smaller powerlifter in terms of strength anyday.




I'm saying that as a general rule, larger people with more muscle mass have a strength advantage over smaller people with less muscle mass.

Shorter people with more muscle mass than a larger person and more developed nervous impulses to their muscles will obviously be stronger than larger people. However, larger people can develop the same strength of nervous impulses and can develop even more muscle mass.
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#287356 - 10/15/06 04:51 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Chen Zen]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I don't understand why this topic keeps popping up and why people who don't grapple to any extent are the ones bringing it up.

I have yet to actually hear anyone of any significant level of skill or experience talk about successfully grappling multiple opponents. Yet non grapplers often seem to want to imply that these claims are being made regularly......By whom I ask?

Until I have names and faces to put with these claims, I will write these comments off as gossip and baseless innuendo
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#287357 - 10/15/06 07:33 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Fletch1]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
If you must know, Fletch, it was a brief discussion between me and Migo on another thread in the self defense forum.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#287358 - 10/16/06 11:07 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Chen Zen]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
ok. Was there someone talking about successfully grappling more than one opponent?
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#287359 - 10/16/06 11:43 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Fletch1]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Yes and it wasnt me.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#287360 - 10/17/06 01:27 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Chen Zen]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Ok. Thanks.

That stuff just drives me crazy. Didn't mean to take it out on you.
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#287361 - 10/17/06 06:15 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Leo_E_49]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Another factor that should be included in this debate is the fact that shorter people have shorter limbs and therefore greater leverage than their taller counterparts. So with the same amount of muscle mass, and the same force of the actual muscular contraction, they are able to lift heavier loads.
Now, in general, taller people can be stronger than short folks because of the potential difference in muscle mass, but this difference is not as great as size alone can account for.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#287362 - 10/17/06 10:05 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Fletch1]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
No problem Bro.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#287363 - 10/18/06 05:01 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: jkdwarrior]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
True, in most cases the difference is slight. However, if the difference in size is significant it can be more of a deciding factor.
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