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#287334 - 09/23/06 04:19 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Rumble]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

Ok this is just my opinion so everyone dont get bent out of shape especially the moderators lol....pure power or strenght can beat almost any technique. Take for instance Matt Hughes without his freakish strenght he would be nothing. By the way I cant wait for the BJPenn vs. Matt Hughes fight. Im rooting for my local brother BJ to knock the crap out of Hughes.




Matt Hughes has more than strength, GSP didn't consider him to be strong yet he still lost. Matt Hughes has very good technique, anyone who thinks otherwise is simply wrong.

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#287335 - 09/23/06 08:15 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Rumble]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Wrong. All you need is a little strength imbalance or that little edge for the outcome to be in your favor.




Wrong. Watch the early UFC's. Royce Gracie fought people that were massively bigger and stronger, and beat them with better technique. The imbalance has to be substantial. What you are talking about is luck.

I have beaten bigger, stronger guys in both stand-up and grappling with better technique. It happens a lot.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#287336 - 09/23/06 08:31 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: MattJ]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I think it comes down to the fact that a bigger, stronger person has the potential to defeat a smaller, weaker person because they can both train just as much and both have the ability to improve their technique. It's a sad fact of life that things just aren't fair. A big, skillful fighter will beat a small skillful fighter. However, the lines are blurred when you're matching a big, unskilled fighter against a small, skilled fighter. The match could go either way.
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#287337 - 09/23/06 09:22 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Leo_E_49]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
lol its not unfair, you dont just get born big, you work for it...never seen any muscly dudes who didnt exercise..one of the sideeffects of which happens to be a better fighting ability. Tanky dudes have to put in the hard work you know!
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#287338 - 09/23/06 09:30 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: crablord]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Admittedly, anyone can get strong, but taller people can generally get stronger. Simply because their frame can hold more muscle. Of course, usually they ignore technique and rely on their strength but those who actually train and improve their technique end up really good.

I'm pretty sure that it's genetically easier for some people to put on muscle mass than others, but I'm no expert on the subject.
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#287339 - 09/23/06 09:57 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Leo_E_49]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Good point, Leo. The skill advantage must be large as well - otherwise strength can win. Really does depend on who has more of what.
_________________________
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#287340 - 09/23/06 07:37 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: MattJ]
Rumble Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 92
Quote:

Good point, Leo. The skill advantage must be large as well - otherwise strength can win. Really does depend on who has more of what.




My bad I should of made my statement more clear with everything else being equal like skill weight etc... the stronger person usually wins. Back then Gracie was one of the best skilled fighters on the planet because the rest of them didnt know how to actually fight and in skill wise Gracie was way better thats why he won but now everyone knows how to fight and Gracie is nothing compared to most fighters nowdays. Now when two good fighters like Matt and GSP fight they almost equal in skill but Matt has the little edge in strength and that little strength can make a big difference in the outcome of the fight if you took that strength edge away from Matt maybe he could of lost to GSP.
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#287341 - 09/23/06 07:54 PM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: Chen Zen]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
It depends on the opponents. Are they 10 year olds or NFL defensive linemen?

I absolutely agree that it isn't a smart idea to grapple two or more opponents.

I think that two or more "worthy opponents" are trouble in any range and that your only true course of action should be to escape. I believe that anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

I mean, anything can happen but wouldn't you think that it's generally a stupid idea to stand and fight multiple opponents?

And yes, technique can most certainly overcome size and strength. I have routinely grappled with bigger and stronger individuals and haven't had a great deal of problems completely dominating them provided that I had the higher level of skill.



-John

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#287342 - 09/24/06 03:49 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: JKogas]
Rumble Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 92
Dam just to let everyone know my local brahda BJPenn lost to Matt Hughe. BJ won the first two rounds but by the third round BJ was gassed out and Matt took him down and started to pound and the fight was over. The only problem with BJ is that he dont know how to condition himself if he did I think BJ would of won if he wasnt gassed out by the third round plus he took the fight only on a 4 week notice or something like that. Even alot of BJ's local fans said if he not in shape he not going win and thats just what happened.
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#287343 - 09/24/06 03:56 AM Re: Grappling multiple opponents. [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Sure technique can beat strength. Royce Gracie did it many times but not evryone is a world class grappler.For the average grappler its still going to be very difficult to handle a stronger opponent. And many times if an opponent is stronger than you than its because he has more muscle mass and therefore more weight to throw around as well.
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